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Clumsiness and bipolar disorder; meds causing? other?

Singin'InTheRainClouds

Singin'InTheRainClouds

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
12
Hello. I'm new to this forum. I look forward to participating when I can. I've seen a lot of comments elsewhere in the net from people who have clumsiness with bipolar disorder. Some think it's just part of being bipolar. Anything here want to discuss this? I never used to be clumsy. I was highly coordinated. I could type 90 words a minute and was a professional. I even started and owned a secretarial service, and did reasonably well financially. What prevented me from doing even better financially was bipolar, but I didn't know that at the time. My stamina has never been good, and I need to rest, as well as "get away" from other people and be by myself. I'm very social, but also need much, much alone time and rest. I now take Lamictal and Lexapro. My pdoc and I raised Lamictal from 200 mg/day to 250, now 300. The increases were due to me getting to feel irritable and underlying anger all the time. I know that Lamictal can cause clumsiness. I will talk to my pdoc about it next week. I have a new pdoc because my other one went to a different clinic. My previous one said he had never heard of the Lamictal or Lexapro causing clumsiness. I hope my new one has more info on that. My clumsiness is harrowing. Today I knocked over a whole new carton of catnip all over a dresser with all sorts of stuff on it -- so the catnip is everywhere in that area. I plan to get the vacuum with the hose and try to wipe out the catnip. Later in the day I was attempting to kiss my boyfriend goodbye. He was in the driver's seat in his car, I was standing next to the car. I leaned over to hug him, and crashed my head on the roof of the car. Whack! It didn't hurt near as much as it p...d me off and majorly annoyed me that I just keep on, and on and on making stuff like this happen, every few minutes of every day. I always have a least one accidental minor cut or prick on my hand/s. As soon as one heals, or as soon as I take the band aid off one, I cut myself again. This clumsiness is really bothering me and getting me down and irritable at myself.
 
Zoscia

Zoscia

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Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
103
Location
Essex
You were comparing clumsiness to typing fast which confused me, as clumsiness for me would be walking into tables and lampposts which i have always done. I take Lamotrigine and another medication but it doesn't increase clumsiness. I feel i am less clumsy now but i have slowed down more and rushing around does lessen focus. If you are feeling anger, maybe your energy and mood are up and this is not going to help you to move around more carefully.

All psychiatric medications numb to some extent i was told, so you will probably have less awareness of your surrounds and be a bit more drowsy, even on medications that are not known to cause drowsiness. It is like anti-histamines. We all know Piriton makes you drowsy, but i overheard a pharmacist yesterday saying even the non-drowsy make you a bit drowsy, they all make you drowsy to some extent.

I would say that you could move around more cautiously and take you time in general. You could go to the opticians too or the gp as often balance problems have something to do with the ears.
 
Singin'InTheRainClouds

Singin'InTheRainClouds

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
12
You were comparing clumsiness to typing fast which confused me, as clumsiness for me would be walking into tables and lampposts which i have always done. I take Lamotrigine and another medication but it doesn't increase clumsiness. I feel i am less clumsy now but i have slowed down more and rushing around does lessen focus. If you are feeling anger, maybe your energy and mood are up and this is not going to help you to move around more carefully.

All psychiatric medications numb to some extent i was told, so you will probably have less awareness of your surrounds and be a bit more drowsy, even on medications that are not known to cause drowsiness. It is like anti-histamines. We all know Piriton makes you drowsy, but i overheard a pharmacist yesterday saying even the non-drowsy make you a bit drowsy, they all make you drowsy to some extent.

I would say that you could move around more cautiously and take you time in general. You could go to the opticians too or the gp as often balance problems have something to do with the ears.
Thanks so much for your reply and ideas, Zoscia. You wrote: "I would say that you could move around more cautiously and take you time in general. " Actually, ever since I started on meds nearly 20 years ago, I've done that. But this time, it's much more than this. I try, try try to keep my mind and eyes on my hands ALL the time. Not possible, of course, not ALL the time. My clumsiness does not involve bumping (i.e. my body or parts of my body) into things. It's my hands and arms that knock over things. You also wrote, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear here: "You were comparing clumsiness to typing fast which confused me" I only mentioned typing to show how highly coordinated and successfully fast-moving I used to be. As for feeling anger -- that's AFTER I break something, knock something over, or hit my head on something because I didn't pay attention to where I was bending over etc (rarely that). What you said here really names what's going on with me and my clumsiness: "you will probably have less awareness of your surrounds and be a bit more [clumsy for me, not drowsy]" Your comments are very good, and some of them would have described what was going on with me sometimes in the past, as well as successful things I did to overcome clumsiness back when. I'm sure other readers will find your solutions very helpful. In my case, there's a lot more gong on, just wish I knew what.
 
The Duellist

The Duellist

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
4,654
The neurotransmitter acetylcholine affects focus, concentration, and cognitive function, among many other things. Many students in universities stack nootropics(smart drugs), specifically ones that affect acetylcholine to improve test cores......really to compete. By increasing acetylcholine levels in the brain, one would have laser focus, improved concentration, single mindedness, alertness, quick thinking, .......this comes at a price, racing thoughts, hypervigilance, etc.

One of the modes of action by which lamotrigine works is by blocking acetylcholine receptors.........the very receptors that need to be activated for one to experience that laser focus. Lamotrigine dulls cognitive function. It's called "cognitive dulling". You don't want to take an IQ test on this stuff.

Physical clumsiness as you describe, is simply one of the many symptoms of diminished cognitive function, which includes the rate at which you process information, speech slowing down(even though you may not be aware of it). Observe someone under the effects of alcohol, not only are they clumsy, but reaction times, rate of speech and thought processes are impaired.

There are drugs, particularly stimulants that serve as antidotes for the clumsiness you describe, however it defeats the purpose of taking lamictal in the first place. Google "lamictal and acetylcholine", and you'll get plenty of "hits" on the subject. It's the acetylcholine blocking effects of lamictal that are actually behind it's antidepressant effects.

Show this to your doctor.


The anticonvulsive drug lamotrigine blocks neuronal {alpha}4{beta}2 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. - PubMed - NCBI
 
Singin'InTheRainClouds

Singin'InTheRainClouds

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
12
Dear Dualist,

This is fascinating and informative information. Yes, I certainly will show it to my pdoc.

I checked out the PubMed link you sent, too. I didn't read it because it described in graphic detail the experiments on animals that they did. Yes, I know that by taking these meds I am supporting and benefiting from these types of experiments. This is a real issue for me. I do not know how to deal with it. No experiments on animals, equals extreme, intolerable, terrible mood disorder I experience. In fact, I do have to wonder how historically how bipolar/majorly depressive people managed, before about 1975 when the mood disorder drugs came out. I do know that in the 19th century, a pdoc lived on the grounds of the psychiatric hospitals. They observed severe mania attacks that people had. Sometimes the mania caused such frenetic activity for days, and and lack of sleep that they died. Many classical (other?) musicians had major depression, and died in mental hospitals. Mary Lincoln died in a mental hospital. How they died there is not discussed in the documentaries I've seen, so who knows exactly how they died. I also have not seen or read any information about historic rapid cycling bipolar
 
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