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Carl Jung & Schizophrenia

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"Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary - folks don't have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing's Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry's Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-'Weller than well'- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it's own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult."

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“I have now, after long practical experience, come to hold the view that the psychogenic causation of the disease is more probable than the toxic [physico-chemical] causation. There are a number of mild and ephemeral but manifestly schizophrenic illnesses - quite apart from the even more common latent psychoses - which begin purely psychogenically, run an equally psychological course (aside from certain presumably toxic nuances) and can be completely cured by a purely psychotherapeutic procedure. I have seen this even in severe cases”.

- Carl Jung

Jung & Schizophrenia

Eighty-odd years ago, Jung voiced his deep concern that the powerful, often vivid, chaotic and disturbing psychology of schizophrenia, which he had so painstakingly chartered and honoured throughout the many years he treated and healed schizophrenia sufferers, had not been given the respect and serious attention it deserved. He likewise lamented the appalling lack of knowledge of the psychology of schizophrenia among those of his own profession, a situation which has changed precious little today.

Sadly, however, Jung's vast body of invaluable work has fallen for the most on hostile ground and deaf ears, ironically in psychiatric circles, largely because Jung's respect for 'the reality of the psyche' and its religious, mythic and spiritual needs, dimensions and instincts poses a threat to the materialist bias that underscores drug-based, or biologic psychiatry, but also because his personally demanding and soul-centred approach to psychiatry is radically at odds with the detached 'illusion of expertise' on which biologic psychiatry's mask of authority, presumed sanity, and stagnant wasteland of 'brain chemistry' dogma are shakily grounded.

In place of dry textbook knowledge learned by rote, Jung gives precedence to living primary experience, hence his assertion that we understand nothing psychologically unless we've experienced it. In this sense, the people who know most about schizophrenia are the sufferers themselves, followed closely by those who have 'been there' and have pulled themselves out of a psychosis and so 'know the road'. Such folk, as invaluable 'wounded healers', can therefore often guide others groping along similar roads, or pull people out of the quagmires and tricky labyrinths of psychosis.

Equal Therapeutic Dialogue

In place of the practitioner's mask of fatherly authority, Jung puts the mutual vulnerability, openness, imaginal richness, honesty and trust of the therapeutic dialogue, in which patient and therapist confront one another on equal terms and through which both stand to learn and grow. In place of forced treatment, hasty consultations and toxic psychiatric drugs, Jung puts a trust in nature, unconscious wisdom and the healing which, residing in the 'patient patient', is catalysed and midwifed by the caring therapist. No wonder he poses a threat to those who esteem power, professional detachment, diplomas, diagnostic manuals and drug company profits over the empowerment, equality, freedom, healing and dignity of the patient.

Needless to say, there are other closely related and equally grave moral issues at stake here. For instance, imagine, if you will, that a reputable medical practitioner had come forward with evidence of a safe, natural cure for cancer, but that the medical establishment had ignored the evidence and, worse still, had kept the findings from cancer sufferers for fear of losing income and power through their monopoly over the provision of existing anti-cancer 'treatments', which do not heal. By the same token, Jung - and others who have followed in his wake - cured his schizophrenic patients with psychotherapy alone. The tragedy of the 'mental health crisis' is not only, then, that so many already fragile and wounded people have been damaged and driven to suicide; what is equally tragic is that all along, there have existed natural, re-empowering, healing alternatives to psychiatric drugs; alternatives which biologic psychiatry, the Government, Schizophrenia Fellowships and drug companies have in a morally disgraceful way ignored, or deliberately kept from sufferers and the public."

http://www.mentalhealthforum.net/forum/thread55346.html
 
*autumn*

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". By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it's own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult."

___thanks
 
Mark_01

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I read that Jung was a womanising plagiarist and an anti-Semitic Nazi sympathizer with a Christ complex who hated his father. Of course, these claims could be inaccurate, but I think it is interesting to note that his fellow academics had this negative opinion of him.
 
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I read that Jung was a womanising plagiarist and an anti-Semitic Nazi sympathizer with a Christ complex who hated his father. Of course, these claims could be inaccurate, but I think it is interesting to note that his fellow academics had this negative opinion of him.
He was into numerology. That is never a good sign. So was Freud though, and we all know what he was upto? Archetypal dirty ol' man.
 

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I read that Jung was a womanising plagiarist and an anti-Semitic Nazi sympathizer with a Christ complex who hated his father. Of course, these claims could be inaccurate, but I think it is interesting to note that his fellow academics had this negative opinion of him.
Yes, i have read the critics as well. &? Personally i don't think it detracts from his core message/work.

You could say what you have written is an ad hominem argument - it's a very common tactic to try & discredit people.

i think Jung was a great humanitarian - possible the greatest of the last Century. i think he's done more than anyone else within a 'modern' context to try & create a map & understanding of the psyche, & to try & bring in a genuinely humane treatment of the mad. i think he was very far ahead of his time, & is still hundreds of years ahead of this time.

He was also considered to be a dangerous mystic - & we know how that fits with the mainstream/officially sanctioned materialist paradigm/meme/Zeitgeist.
 
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He was into numerology.
& Alchemy, Mysticism, Shamanism, Tribal Cultures, Vedic philosophy, Gnosticism, Comparative Religion, Mythology, Astrology, Magick, Astrotheology, the Paranormal/Supernatural, the occult & esoteric, & just about every other area of human experience & enquiry.
 
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Mark_01

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Jung is like the Brothers Grimm, he collected a bunch of fairy tales and published them; Jung just made more money than they did.
 

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Jung is like the Brothers Grimm, he collected a bunch of fairy tales and published them; Jung just made more money than they did.
An interesting view - is this based on your extensive reading & knowledge of Jung's work?

He devised a very sophisticated map of the psyche, that has been one of the foundations of modern Western psychology.

Much written - But this is a good overview/introduction, for anyone interested -

Jung's Map of the Soul: An Introduction by Murray Stein
 
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supergreysmoke

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& Alchemy, Mysticism, Tribal Cultures, Vedic philosophy, Gnosticism, Magick, the Paranormal, the occult & esoteric, & just about every other area of human experience & enquiry.
He was a complex character, almost human and almost too human, one might say. Some of his ideas closer to the 'truth' than other ideas which were farther away. No different from Freud in a lot of ways, a product of his times and mostly meaningful within it. I agree ad homs are uncivil ways of winning a argument via attacking a reputation. Confront ideas. If they are good they won't fall over with light criticism on a mental health board.
 
Mark_01

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Oh, yes, had him back in my college days, we did Jung and Joseph Campbell together, and there was also a women writer whose name I've forgotten. They were very much into myths and the collective over soul. Most of his work can be compared to going to a seance; if you are there, blow out the candle kind of thing. He also had a reputation of having sexual relationships with his patients.
 

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Oh, yes, had him back in my college days, we did Jung and Joseph Campbell together, and there was also a women writer whose name I've forgotten. They were very much into myths and the collective over soul. Most of his work can be compared to going to a seance; if you are there, blow out the candle kind of thing. He also had a reputation of having sexual relationships with his patients.
i see you have a very deep understanding of the area of Jungian Psychology.
 
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i see you have a very deep understanding of the area of Jungian Psychology.
Not at all, he just didn't impress me very much, that's all. Apparently, other than a small circle of admirers, his work has not stood up to the test of time.
 

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Not at all, he just didn't impress me very much, that's all. Apparently, other than a small circle of admirers, his work has not stood up to the test of time.
i think it's very debatable as to what influence his work has had & still has?

i already covered the reason why his work was never accepted by the mainstream - it doesn't fit with us all being separate blobs of meat in a dead Universe.
 
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