Can you help with Section 37/41 of the mental health act 1983?

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MrBrOwn

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Hi, im currently an inpatient in a mental health hospital in the north east of England. For 17 years ive been on a Section 37/41 of the mental health act 1983. My first Discharge came in 2017 and since then ive been recalled twice to Acute Services. The lead up to my original detention and section was an extremly traumatic time for me. Id suffered years of near fatal abuse in my family home and in 1999 my mother and two of my brothers were killed in a single fatal car crash. I was still a very young man at that point, 16 years old and no way of knowing how to cope with everything id been through and it caused a psychosis which resulted in my detention in Rampton hospital from the age of 19. The psychosis itself passed be the end of 2005 and i was diagnosed with Personality Disorder with various elements to that. From 2005 to 2017 i was moved from hospital to hospital as i proved my way down the chain of security, not since the end of 2005 has there been any concerns of relapse or any sign of another Psychotic Episode despite no Anti Psychotic Medicines andministered for several years now, both recalls i have had have found no concerns in relation to my mental wellbeing and mental state. Im not afraid to tell both the MDT teams involved or the M.O.J which is ultimitley the defining decision maker in my detainment the word NO if i dont agree with something and i believe this is the reason im still detained on section 37/41 despite there being a clear lack of mental relapse or deteriation. Im able to care for myself, i can work and in deed have done so succesfully when allowed to. Im now 36 years old, i have no family and im desperate to build a life for myself and have my own family. Ive challenged my section multiple times and each times they have referred to the original psychosis ending in 2005 as the reason not to lift the section. I have all the reports and correspondence from the last 17 years between all parties ( 3rd party infomation excluded ) and the reports from the two recalls that both say no evidence of a functioning mental illness found. Im desperate to challenge this on a higher level and im even willing to have the full 17 years published in order to achieve the 1 thing ive worked and aimed for the last 17 years which is a life, a future and god willing a family of my own. Can anyone advise my on how to futher challenge the section 37/41? I have always accepted and agreed i have personality disorders, now extremly well managed and i have always accepted and agreed i had the Psychotic Episode ending in 2005. It feels as though im judged in my past despite the fact ive worked 17 years to give myself a future. Any help or advice at all is greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this and hope to hear from anyone with any ideas. Regards



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mischief

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Hi and welcome to the Mental Health Forum :welcome:

You've been through an incredible amount of trauma from events in your life and by the sounds of things trauma induced by the system. Of course, I have no idea of your background, I'm guessing though if you spent time at Rampton under a section 37/41 the Crown Court thought you, at the time, posed a grave and immediate danger to yourself or the public.

As I understand it (I'm sure you know this a lot better than I do!), it is only the Secretary of State for Justice who can discharge you from a Section 37/41.

I suspect you have identified the cause of your ongoing detention when you say:

Im not afraid to tell both the MDT teams involved or the M.O.J which is ultimitley the defining decision maker in my detainment the word NO if i dont agree with something and i believe this is the reason im still detained on section 37/41 despite there being a clear lack of mental relapse or deteriation.
Naturally the people in the system don't like people who challenge or disagree with their opinions/decisions.

With the decision to continue your detainment ultimately being a political decision, made by the the Secretary of State for Justice, those advising the person in that role, are going to act cautiously, as it is both their professional reputations, and the political reputation of the Secretary of State for Justice, they are going to protect. The political climate at the moment is averse to taking any risk. They are very scared a public backlash if something goes wrong.

The discrimination and stigma that you experience from the labels you carry must be some of the most challenging someone has to face.

It's great to hear that you are:

desperate to challenge this on a higher level and im even willing to have the full 17 years published in order to achieve the 1 thing ive worked and aimed for the last 17 years which is a life, a future and god willing a family of my own.
It does sound like you are potentially being deprived some very basic human rights. Has any work on your situation been done around the Human Rights Act?

Can anyone advise my on how to futher challenge the section 37/41?
I would suggest contacting the organisation, Liberty, as from you are saying it sounds as if there possibly may be a state abuse of power (exercised by the MDT teams involved and/or the M.O.J and ultimately, the Secretary of State for Justice), that is stopping you from exercising your rights and freedoms. Liberty, has a long history of standing up for our human rights. They may be interested in taking up your case.

Another alternative would be getting representation from a legal firm such as Bindmans, They have a reputation to quote their website "for excellence and for being at the cutting edge of legal developments - particularly in relation to issues around human rights, discrimination and public authorities’ powers." I suggest this firm as they have extensive experience in many of the issues involved in your situation. As I understand it your costs should be covered by legal aid.

I'm guessing in the past, you have been represented by lawyers at your various Tribunal hearings. I recently supported my mother at a Mental Health Act Tribunal and I must say I was very disappointed by her legal representation, I think I could have done a much better job representing her myself. It is this experience which leads me to suggest a specialist firm such as Bindmans. I have been aware of their work for many years, through some work I did around race equality.

Your situation brings up a really important point, which many people with mental health difficulties face, that of being judged on what happened in the past. It sounds like you have worked very hard to overcome the traumatic events of your life, including your psychosis. You illustrate this here:

I have always accepted and agreed i have personality disorders, now extremly well managed and i have always accepted and agreed i had the Psychotic Episode ending in 2005. It feels as though im judged in my past despite the fact ive worked 17 years to give myself a future.

Do you have any friends and family who are working with you on these issues?

It sounds to me if you need to build up some kind of support/campaign group around the issues involved in your case. You can't be the only one who has such limitations placed on you by a section 37/41 order. Given where you have been for all these years I suspect you must know a few.

I hope this has helped. I am also hoping that this thread assists in some networking with both other people who have experienced such section 37/41 orders and people who are interested in supporting people who have experienced them.

I'd really appreciate being kept in touch thorough you posting in this thread about how you get on.

Good luck!
 
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MrBrOwn

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Guys forget my last post, 0n the 29/04/2019 a high court judge did something hes never done before in all his years. He went against the generalised view of Personality Disorders and after 17 years of Detainment almost he granted me a full, absolute Conditional Discharge. I cant put into words the pure joy of it but now the real work begins. Ive no property, no money, no family at all but ill not be homeless they are helping me still. Cheers for the advice and kind words on my last post guys.
 
daffy

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I’m so glad that this has all worked out well for you. But sorry you’ve been through so much

Good luck for the future

Daf:hug:
 
AliceinWonderland

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So pleased you got this decision, and all the very best from this point on. Will it be a gradual discharge so you have chance to get used to not being in hospital?
 
mischief

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Guys forget my last post, 0n the 29/04/2019 a high court judge did something hes never done before in all his years. He went against the generalised view of Personality Disorders and after 17 years of Detainment almost he granted me a full, absolute Conditional Discharge. I cant put into words the pure joy of it but now the real work begins. Ive no property, no money, no family at all but ill not be homeless they are helping me still. Cheers for the advice and kind words on my last post guys.
That's absolutely fantastic news! I suspect a reflection of your commitment, work and drive for justice. Congratulations!

What are your plans?

Please do keep us updated on how things unfold. Your experiences could help a lot of people. If you'd like to write about your experience for our website we'd appreciate it. Other people in a similar situation might find it useful and it would give them hope and I suspect, lots of advice.
 
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MrBrOwn

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Thank you guys but it’s getting a lot more difficult, the problem is I’m a 36 year old male with no social history or I’d, no local links to anywhere and no income except 288 was. I have to find a way to get a flat soon, it’s not just me even the ccg funding authority for ntw trust has been trying along with social services. I’ve literally got zero history or proof of any kind of who I am and I’m still being told could be at least another 2 weals before checks can be completed. Any ideas guys? And thank you so much yeah I wouldn’t mind writing about it.
 
mischief

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What checks are they doing? I would have thought for social housing you would have had a very high priority.

The organisation Shelter has a helpline which may be to help. Perhaps you could try calling them.

I’m trying to get my head around what is happening to you at the moment. Where are you staying at the moment?

Given the nature of your excellent success in court, which was probably unexpected to those in the hospital/MH/DOJ system, was any prior thought given/preparation done for your release from the section?

Do you have a mentor or someone who is helping you through the process of resettlement?

Sorry for asking so many questions.

I have recently become aware of the Hardman Directory. Are you aware of it? I suspect much of what is in it is relevant to you.

To me it sounds like there is a need for a section 37/41 organisation to support those on or have been on such sections.
 
midnightphoenix

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Thank you guys but it’s getting a lot more difficult, the problem is I’m a 36 year old male with no social history or I’d, no local links to anywhere and no income except 288 was. I have to find a way to get a flat soon, it’s not just me even the ccg funding authority for ntw trust has been trying along with social services. I’ve literally got zero history or proof of any kind of who I am and I’m still being told could be at least another 2 weals before checks can be completed. Any ideas guys? And thank you so much yeah I wouldn’t mind writing about it.
the hospital staff hopefully will help you with identity proof etc :hug:
 
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ramboghettouk

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they are keeping you in by not offering you alternatives, am i right sadly with the requirement for social workers to provide housing and the housing crisis that wasn't there in the past giving those vicious social workers power they never used to have
 
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MrBrOwn

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Hi guys thank you for the response, so there’s a lady in Newcastle CCJ who’s trying to help me get sorted but to this point no success, I’m now 3 weeks as an actual guest of the NHS, completely discharged no conditions but nowhere to live no family and struggling to get this sorted. I need to try finding an understanding landlord anywhere real that would allow me to move in while I get benefits sorted until HB comes through. So far I’m doing good though, adapting to the changes and freedoms well and have an excitement about life again, thank you so much for any and all advice guys I honestly appreciate it.
 
AliceinWonderland

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Good luck MrBrOwn, I hope things get sorted soon for you, and you can begin to build the next part of your life :peace:
 
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ramboghettouk

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i'm not so sure the community is wonderful if you've got a severe mental illness, you are ostracised and rejected by most people, you live in social housing with a lot of problem people in the same boat without support, and theres always people refusing treatment making life difficult, say what you like about the institutions they didn't just leave people

the guy who was in that hostel with me decades ago has ended up under section in a care home, i'm telling him he's the lucky one, am i joking? when i visited him i had to go through 8 doors with a combination lock and a lift with a combination

but as you get older and start needing care including physical and the care isn't provided by the local authority, all i can say is it makes you think
 

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