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Can mental illness be prevented?

C

Chimera

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I know what you mean the boundaries are not clear even with psychosis, but having gone mad I have had some unhealthy beliefs which I wish I hadn't. It's not always so clear though and culturally bound (a large problem in general with diagnoses).
One tends to become endlessly trapped in a sterile, false dichotomy between, on the one hand, the "medical model of mental illness", and on the other hand, a denial that there is any specific kind of problem here - other than the problems caused by doctors and their drugs, which are indeed numerous and serious. I gave up months ago even trying to talk about it ("'It'? What's 'it'?" - etc.), and I don't like saying even this much. However, the question that is the title of this thread is not meaningless, even though the presupposition of the medical model appears to be contained in the language which it is forced to use. There are bad things to be prevented (e.g. I spent 4 consecutive days just before Christmas thinking obsessively about suicide, including planning physical details of an attempt, which I have scarcely done in 30 years - and no-one should ever feel like that, regardless of any conception of "illness" or anything else). And one of the main obstacles to their prevention is the medical model. I refrained from saying this initially! But it was implied in the passage I chose to quote. That passage also contains a much preferable phrase, "the illness model of mental and emotional disorder" - although even that phrase, or anything like it, can lead to endless, sterile, heated, bad-tempered arguments, here in this forum or anywhere else.
 
shaky

shaky

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but, but, but

the thread asks
'Can mental illness be prevented?'

and the answer would be
No

becuase people will always suffer trauma
People will always have to try to survive in a hostile world
and that will drive some into mental distress

I know the drugs they give us are only treating the symptoms.
And I don't take them anymore myself, despite what the doctors want
but when I was psychotic and desperate, the drugs did do me good


but now that that period is over...

yes, the drugs caused problems for me, making my brain act weird when I stopped taking them


the problem is, the pdocs keep using the treatment to stop the symptoms and never attempt to treat the cause.


but who has a cure for the cause?
I haven't heard of anything
 
Hope2366less

Hope2366less

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I'm only going to rant here and there, and not get into any long debate either. I'm only ranting because I'm empty and have nothing else to do now.

I agree however sick I (or other authors) believe our society is, there are always some things which can go wrong with individuals, once damaged from child abuse or early life adversity or otherwise, where the problems with society don't come into play at all.
 
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but who has a cure for the cause?
I haven't heard of anything
Whatever can be said about that - you get slated as a dreamer, idealist & utopian - & accused of having unrealistic notions that deny the realities of human nature.

Personally I feel that a genuinely enlightened, genuinely civilised & caring society is possible - & I'm sure that many such Worlds exist in the Universe & indeed this Galaxy.

Will the Earth ever be like that? I feel it's choice - collectively & individually we could create a far better World; a World in which there were none of the injustices that currently exist. I'm not going to debate what that would take - but I feel it would certainly entail the end of the monetary system, all religions, & politics (in their current form) for starters. It would also need an aware & awake population. As a species are 'we' capable of it? Maybe - or maybe not. Time will tell. Things will change - how things change is another matter. There are a number of possible scenarios any one of which wouldn't surprise me. In some ways things may be too late.

& in the grand scheme of things - does of any of it really matter any more? I have no interest left in the mass of humanity. It would take miracles to change what the realities of my life have been (& I'm sure that of many others).
 
C

Chimera

Guest
but, but, but

the thread asks
'Can mental illness be prevented?'

and the answer would be
No

becuase people will always suffer trauma
People will always have to try to survive in a hostile world
and that will drive some into mental distress
But you surely wouldn't suggest turning a blind eye to child abuse, for example.

(Of course I don't mean only high-profile, sensational, specifically sexual abuse by celebrities.)

So the answer is also
Yes

P.S. Obviously the question in the thread title doesn't mean, "Is it possible at a stroke to take decisive, heroic action, on a mass scale, which will ensure that no case of 'mental illness' ever occurs again, anywhere?" That would be like asking if there is an instant total cure for all physical diseases. In both cases, the answer is a resounding and obvious "No". It never even crossed my mind that anyone would interpret the question in that way, but now I'm beginning to wonder.
 
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shaky

shaky

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But you surely wouldn't suggest turning a blind eye to child abuse, for example.

(Of course I don't mean only high-profile, sensational, specifically sexual abuse by celebrities.)

So the answer is also
Yes
I lived an ordinary childhood in an ordinary town

and I still went mad
at 45 years old

it's not always preventable things that cause mental distress
just the rough and tumble of a rough world
 
C

Chimera

Guest
I lived an ordinary childhood in an ordinary town

and I still went mad
at 45 years old

it's not always preventable things that cause mental distress
just the rough and tumble of a rough world
No-one said it was always preventable things that cause mental distress.
 
pepecat

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There are too many factors that come into play to make prevention of mental illness completely preventable.
Granted, there are some things we can do which would help, such as trying to prevent child abuse or domestic violence, or giving people decent trauma therapy if things happen to them. But there are other factors which are just not forseeable in individuals due to our own make up and the way we respond to things. Lets say there are two siblings, brought up in the same house, weren't abused, no violence / divorce / major ill health / trauma / alcoholism at all....... things were stable and, to most people's eyes, perfectly normal and happy. Why does one end up with depression and one not? Could be all sorts of factors - different personalities of siblings, the way the parents treat them differently, different things that are expected of them due to one being the firstborn, or the boy, or the girl, or the 'clever' one, or the 'sporty' one.... and so on, and so on. It's impossible to prevent mental illness arising from stuff like that.
 
shaky

shaky

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P.S. Obviously the question in the thread title doesn't mean, "Is it possible at a stroke to take decisive, heroic action, on a mass scale, which will ensure that no case of 'mental illness' ever occurs again, anywhere?" That would be like asking if there is an instant total cure for all physical diseases. In both cases, the answer is a resounding and obvious "No". It never even crossed my mind that anyone would interpret the question in that way, but now I'm beginning to wonder.
Well, yes.
I tend to take statements as they are written
If you didn't mean that
what did you mean?
Can some mental illness be prevented?
Of course


I don't think psychiatrists consider their drugs to be a prevention of mental illness
or I could be wrong about that
maybe there's a movement out there to medicate everyone who might get ill.


I'm getting lost here:unsure:
 
C

Chimera

Guest
Well, yes.
I tend to take statements as they are written
If you didn't mean that
what did you mean?
(1) All language is ambiguous, so interpretation is always involved, and something often called "common sense" is necessary. But "common sense" is not sufficient, with the result that even very sensible (and very intelligent, educated, well-informed and well-meaning) people can be obliged to spend ages trying to find out if anyone understands even the simplest thing another of them has said.

(2) As has already been pointed out, the term "mental illness" is practically meaningless.

(3) I didn't ask the question; I merely interpreted it in what seemed to be a "commonsensical" way, which may well seem quite lunatic to someone else.

Can some mental illness be prevented?
Of course


I don't think psychiatrists consider their drugs to be a prevention of mental illness
or I could be wrong about that
maybe there's a movement out there to medicate everyone who might get ill.
Very few cases of "mental illness" will be prevented by people who think it is a perfectly well-defined term which denotes something physically wrong with the physical organ of the brain, and therefore (by a logic which isn't even valid, even granted the truth of the false hypothesis) doctors (and no-one else) should be in ultimate charge of the whole field. What would they do: abort foetuses, change DNA, adopt eugenic policies, exterminate the supposedly unfit? Or discover "germs" or "viruses" which cause "mental illness"?

So there is no "of course".

I give up.

I think I'll take another few months off.

I'm getting lost here:unsure:
I'm not lost; on the contrary, I've been here far too often before!

But I do have a familiar horrible sinking feeling in my stomach. I hope I have the sense to make this my last post in this thread.

(I see good old Apotheosis has either given up completely, or else finally been banned. Sad. He and I don't even agree on this subject. But at least he understands that in this matter we are up against the materialism of an entire civilisation, which won't change in hundreds of years, even if the civilisation survives. So any rational discussion of the topic feels like pissing in the wind. Still, I thought the question in the OP had a nice practical orientation.)
 
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(I see good old Apotheosis has either given up completely, or else finally been banned. Sad. He and I don't even agree on this subject. But at least he understands that in this matter we are up against the materialism of an entire civilisation, which won't change in hundreds of years, even if the civilisation survives. So any rational discussion of the topic feels like pissing in the wind. Still, I thought the question in the OP had a nice practical orientation.)
The beleaguered Ghost of Apotheosis remains/has returned - & is performing defunct CPU cycles ;)
 
shaky

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Very few cases of "mental illness" will be prevented by people who think it is a perfectly well-defined term which denotes something physically wrong with the physical organ of the brain, and therefore (by a logic which isn't even valid, even granted the truth of the false hypothesis) doctors (and no-one else) should be in ultimate charge of the whole field. What would they do: abort foetuses, change DNA, adopt eugenic policies, exterminate the supposedly unfit? Or discover "germs" or "viruses" which cause "mental illness"?
but, but, but
Doctors aren't stopping us from preventing child abuse etc..

And I still think the point I made you leave unanaswered
What are you going to do with people who are suffering mental distress if you don't give them drugs?
 
C

Chimera

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Rather than not posting at all, but still refraining from fruitless argument or ranting, for a second time I'll just quote something. This time it's from a BBC Radio 4 comedy that I happen to be listening to, The Penny Dreadfuls Present: Hereward the Wake.

Hereward: I swear on my life's blood that I shall protect all innocent people everywhere from all evil everywhere for the rest of time. May my soul be damned to Hell for all eternity if I fail. I swear to protect everyone, everywhere, for ever. And so does Martin, or he'll go to Hell as well.
There, that'll prevent mental illness.
 
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What are you going to do with people who are suffering mental distress if you don't give them drugs?
Soteria, Diabasis, i-ward, quaker approaches, open dialogue, etc, etc, etc - proper psychological & social help, is it really so hard?

Spiritual Recovery: Dr. John Weir Perry & Diabasis

Schizophrenia Treatment Without Antipsychotic Drugs and the Legacy of Loren Mosher

Moral treatment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Finnish Open Dialogue: High recovery rates leave many psychiatric beds empty

Windhorse Integrative Mental Health

When applied properly the majority can be helped to full medication free healing. That has been proved time & time again.
 
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is it really so hard?
"Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary - folks don't have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing's Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry's Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-'Weller than well'- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it's own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult."

_____________________________________________

& the life conclusion of the greatest psychiatrist/psychologist that has ever lived -

“I have now, after long practical experience, come to hold the view that the psychogenic causation of the disease is more probable than the toxic [physico-chemical] causation. There are a number of mild and ephemeral but manifestly schizophrenic illnesses - quite apart from the even more common latent psychoses - which begin purely psychogenically, run an equally psychological course (aside from certain presumably toxic nuances) and can be completely cured by a purely psychotherapeutic procedure. I have seen this even in severe cases”.

- Carl Jung

____________________________________________

Healing people!!!??? Oh NO NO NO - We can't have that!!! Get everyone on toxic drugs for life, don't give them any proper psychological/social help, & no proper support - leave them to rot & blame it all on their biology - that's the way to do it! Top Job :)
 
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