Can mental illness be prevented?

shaky

shaky

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
7,587
Location
Warwickshire
#21
But you surely wouldn't suggest turning a blind eye to child abuse, for example.

(Of course I don't mean only high-profile, sensational, specifically sexual abuse by celebrities.)

So the answer is also
Yes
I lived an ordinary childhood in an ordinary town

and I still went mad
at 45 years old

it's not always preventable things that cause mental distress
just the rough and tumble of a rough world
 
C

Chimera

Guest
#22
I lived an ordinary childhood in an ordinary town

and I still went mad
at 45 years old

it's not always preventable things that cause mental distress
just the rough and tumble of a rough world
No-one said it was always preventable things that cause mental distress.
 
pepecat

pepecat

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
13,690
Location
middle earth
#23
There are too many factors that come into play to make prevention of mental illness completely preventable.
Granted, there are some things we can do which would help, such as trying to prevent child abuse or domestic violence, or giving people decent trauma therapy if things happen to them. But there are other factors which are just not forseeable in individuals due to our own make up and the way we respond to things. Lets say there are two siblings, brought up in the same house, weren't abused, no violence / divorce / major ill health / trauma / alcoholism at all....... things were stable and, to most people's eyes, perfectly normal and happy. Why does one end up with depression and one not? Could be all sorts of factors - different personalities of siblings, the way the parents treat them differently, different things that are expected of them due to one being the firstborn, or the boy, or the girl, or the 'clever' one, or the 'sporty' one.... and so on, and so on. It's impossible to prevent mental illness arising from stuff like that.
 
shaky

shaky

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
7,587
Location
Warwickshire
#24
P.S. Obviously the question in the thread title doesn't mean, "Is it possible at a stroke to take decisive, heroic action, on a mass scale, which will ensure that no case of 'mental illness' ever occurs again, anywhere?" That would be like asking if there is an instant total cure for all physical diseases. In both cases, the answer is a resounding and obvious "No". It never even crossed my mind that anyone would interpret the question in that way, but now I'm beginning to wonder.
Well, yes.
I tend to take statements as they are written
If you didn't mean that
what did you mean?
Can some mental illness be prevented?
Of course


I don't think psychiatrists consider their drugs to be a prevention of mental illness
or I could be wrong about that
maybe there's a movement out there to medicate everyone who might get ill.


I'm getting lost here:unsure:
 
C

Chimera

Guest
#25
Well, yes.
I tend to take statements as they are written
If you didn't mean that
what did you mean?
(1) All language is ambiguous, so interpretation is always involved, and something often called "common sense" is necessary. But "common sense" is not sufficient, with the result that even very sensible (and very intelligent, educated, well-informed and well-meaning) people can be obliged to spend ages trying to find out if anyone understands even the simplest thing another of them has said.

(2) As has already been pointed out, the term "mental illness" is practically meaningless.

(3) I didn't ask the question; I merely interpreted it in what seemed to be a "commonsensical" way, which may well seem quite lunatic to someone else.

Can some mental illness be prevented?
Of course


I don't think psychiatrists consider their drugs to be a prevention of mental illness
or I could be wrong about that
maybe there's a movement out there to medicate everyone who might get ill.
Very few cases of "mental illness" will be prevented by people who think it is a perfectly well-defined term which denotes something physically wrong with the physical organ of the brain, and therefore (by a logic which isn't even valid, even granted the truth of the false hypothesis) doctors (and no-one else) should be in ultimate charge of the whole field. What would they do: abort foetuses, change DNA, adopt eugenic policies, exterminate the supposedly unfit? Or discover "germs" or "viruses" which cause "mental illness"?

So there is no "of course".

I give up.

I think I'll take another few months off.

I'm getting lost here:unsure:
I'm not lost; on the contrary, I've been here far too often before!

But I do have a familiar horrible sinking feeling in my stomach. I hope I have the sense to make this my last post in this thread.

(I see good old Apotheosis has either given up completely, or else finally been banned. Sad. He and I don't even agree on this subject. But at least he understands that in this matter we are up against the materialism of an entire civilisation, which won't change in hundreds of years, even if the civilisation survives. So any rational discussion of the topic feels like pissing in the wind. Still, I thought the question in the OP had a nice practical orientation.)
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

ACCOUNT CLOSED
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
37,660
Location
Planet Lunatic Asylum
#26
(I see good old Apotheosis has either given up completely, or else finally been banned. Sad. He and I don't even agree on this subject. But at least he understands that in this matter we are up against the materialism of an entire civilisation, which won't change in hundreds of years, even if the civilisation survives. So any rational discussion of the topic feels like pissing in the wind. Still, I thought the question in the OP had a nice practical orientation.)
The beleaguered Ghost of Apotheosis remains/has returned - & is performing defunct CPU cycles ;)
 
shaky

shaky

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
7,587
Location
Warwickshire
#27
Very few cases of "mental illness" will be prevented by people who think it is a perfectly well-defined term which denotes something physically wrong with the physical organ of the brain, and therefore (by a logic which isn't even valid, even granted the truth of the false hypothesis) doctors (and no-one else) should be in ultimate charge of the whole field. What would they do: abort foetuses, change DNA, adopt eugenic policies, exterminate the supposedly unfit? Or discover "germs" or "viruses" which cause "mental illness"?
but, but, but
Doctors aren't stopping us from preventing child abuse etc..

And I still think the point I made you leave unanaswered
What are you going to do with people who are suffering mental distress if you don't give them drugs?
 
C

Chimera

Guest
#28
Rather than not posting at all, but still refraining from fruitless argument or ranting, for a second time I'll just quote something. This time it's from a BBC Radio 4 comedy that I happen to be listening to, The Penny Dreadfuls Present: Hereward the Wake.

Hereward: I swear on my life's blood that I shall protect all innocent people everywhere from all evil everywhere for the rest of time. May my soul be damned to Hell for all eternity if I fail. I swear to protect everyone, everywhere, for ever. And so does Martin, or he'll go to Hell as well.
There, that'll prevent mental illness.
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

ACCOUNT CLOSED
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
37,660
Location
Planet Lunatic Asylum
#29
What are you going to do with people who are suffering mental distress if you don't give them drugs?
Soteria, Diabasis, i-ward, quaker approaches, open dialogue, etc, etc, etc - proper psychological & social help, is it really so hard?

Spiritual Recovery: Dr. John Weir Perry & Diabasis

Schizophrenia Treatment Without Antipsychotic Drugs and the Legacy of Loren Mosher

Moral treatment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Finnish Open Dialogue: High recovery rates leave many psychiatric beds empty

Windhorse Integrative Mental Health

When applied properly the majority can be helped to full medication free healing. That has been proved time & time again.
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

ACCOUNT CLOSED
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
37,660
Location
Planet Lunatic Asylum
#30
is it really so hard?
"Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary - folks don't have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing's Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry's Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-'Weller than well'- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it's own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult."

_____________________________________________

& the life conclusion of the greatest psychiatrist/psychologist that has ever lived -

“I have now, after long practical experience, come to hold the view that the psychogenic causation of the disease is more probable than the toxic [physico-chemical] causation. There are a number of mild and ephemeral but manifestly schizophrenic illnesses - quite apart from the even more common latent psychoses - which begin purely psychogenically, run an equally psychological course (aside from certain presumably toxic nuances) and can be completely cured by a purely psychotherapeutic procedure. I have seen this even in severe cases”.

- Carl Jung

____________________________________________

Healing people!!!??? Oh NO NO NO - We can't have that!!! Get everyone on toxic drugs for life, don't give them any proper psychological/social help, & no proper support - leave them to rot & blame it all on their biology - that's the way to do it! Top Job :)
 
A

Ainsworth11

Guest
#31
What are you going to do with people who are suffering mental distress if you don't give them drugs?
from solely my opinion, at certain times we may not have a choice and will need drugs in the acute stage of mental distress but it shouldnt mean that the person isnt then given practical support/ therapies that help maintain and promote long term well being without drugs being a factor.

the sad fact is that its easier to give the drugs and leave the person in that position. we then enter on a rollercoaster of med changes. ask most on here about drugs and they will recite a list of failures which if were added up, could stretch to many years of drug pushing, yet how long did it aid them for? did it make them worse? can they function without the drugs? were they given the choice?
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

ACCOUNT CLOSED
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
37,660
Location
Planet Lunatic Asylum
#32
from solely my opinion, at certain times we may not have a choice and will need drugs in the acute stage of mental distress but it shouldnt mean that the person isnt then given practical support/ therapies that help maintain and promote long term well being without drugs being a factor.

the sad fact is that its easier to give the drugs and leave the person in that position. we then enter on a rollercoaster of med changes. ask most on here about drugs and they will recite a list of failures which if were added up, could stretch to many years of drug pushing, yet how long did it aid them for? did it make them worse? can they function without the drugs? were they given the choice?
Well said - the sad fact is that most are just made more ill by all 'this' treatment. This Civilisation is Insane.

 
pepecat

pepecat

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
13,690
Location
middle earth
#33
Doctors aren't stopping us from preventing child abuse etc..
No they're not. So why aren't we then? Because we can't. No matter how much you educate people, that society may agree that ANY unkindness to children is wrong - smacking, for instance? - it will still happen. For example....if you're a young mother/father, with a young baby who is constantly crying, you're sleep deprived, exhausted, at the end of your tether..... and the baby just Wont Shut Up......what happens when your (limited) patience runs out?
Even saying that ANY unkindness to children is wrong could be seen as a form of abuse. Always saying yes to kids, giving them what they want, pandering to their every need...... and you get spoiled adults who can't handle the fact that the world doesn't revolve around them. Whatever we do, we can't prevent child abuse (from the most violent, awful sort to the psychological or smothering sort), and neither can we prevent mental illness.
Not that child abuse and mental illness are necessarily linked, but that's an example. Or two.

What are you going to do with people who are suffering mental distress if you don't give them drugs?
Oh, I don't know...... listen to them? Give them time and space to talk and get their distress out in a safe place. Let them talk, talk and talk some more if that's what they need. Maybe not be quite to quick to 'fix' and 'normalise' people, but accept that people react in natural ways to crap things that happen, which may be called mental illness but actually makes perfect sense when you realise what they've been through.
Ask 'what happened to you' rather than 'what's wrong with you'.
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

ACCOUNT CLOSED
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
37,660
Location
Planet Lunatic Asylum
#34
Oh, I don't know...... listen to them? Give them time and space to talk and get their distress out in a safe place. Let them talk, talk and talk some more if that's what they need. Maybe not be quite to quick to 'fix' and 'normalise' people, but accept that people react in natural ways to crap things that happen, which may be called mental illness but actually makes perfect sense when you realise what they've been through.
Ask 'what happened to you' rather than 'what's wrong with you'.
Nonsensical witchcraft - outrageous to even suggest such a thing! ;)
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
liliesofthefield Self Help and Mental Health 6

Similar threads