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Blood on their hands

T

Twylight

Guest
I've been on half the recommended dose of Olanazapine for five weeks now

I feel mentally OK , but totally exausted as i've been busy and achieved more in the last five weeks than i have in 25 years

When I remember the six years I spent in bed 24/7 on an injection - was I on twice the amount of Meds I needed to be ?

And when i think of the 23 friends who topped themselves because of the misery of Meds - were they also over-medicated

Doctors - TOSSERS !!!
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
Some would say; & that it is proved - that the majority of people with even the most severe of psychiatric conditions (80 to 90%) - Can be far better & far more therapeutically helped to far better recovery; with entirely med free means.

I have looked deeply into this - & this would indeed to be the truth of it, & factual. Meds make people, & keep them very ill.

I know most people disagree with that; that they ignore & deny the evidence; along with the orthodox psychiatric establishment. But it doesn't stop it being true.

You can't get angry about it - less we be consumed at the total injustice of it all.
 
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Twylight

Guest
My idea of Heaven is that every Psychiatrist is on heavy medication - forever !
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
My idea of Heaven is that every Psychiatrist is on heavy medication - forever !
I have had all this type of thinking too. I used to fantasise about shooting the psychiatrist in the head that put me on so high a dose of meds. Such things do happen. Many years ago I was in a MH unit, & a day patient viciously attacked one of the psychiatrists with a hammer. No doubt he paid a heavy price for doing so.

& lets not forget good old Egas -

In 1939, Egas Moniz received several gunshots from a psychiatric patient. It is believed that the patient gave vague reasons for the shooting saying he was unsatisfied with the dose of a drug Egas-Moniz M.D. had prescribed, however many other sources say that one of his dissatisfied leucotomy patients took revenge after their procedure. He survived and recovered completely.

But none of this thinking/action does any good. It just harms us.

Most of psychiatry if a f*cking joke & the majority of people know it.

http://www.healthyplace.com/depress...ve-psychiatrists-to-distraction/menu-id-1362/
 
T

Twylight

Guest
Yeah, my valium's kicked in now

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb ?

10 - one to change the bulb and 9 to write up the notes
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
What do you call a psychiatrist who thinks that he is God?




Normal!
 
schiz01

schiz01

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
721
Location
Australia
What do you call a psychiatrist when your locked in the mental ward

God....and don't forget to smile
 
P

pboy

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
6
I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in thinking this way. I also think that a lot of psychology in general is bullshit.
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
I also think that a lot of psychology in general is bullshit.
Quite probably is. We are dealing with unknowns.

But I personally think that Carl Jung; (among others) was definitely onto something.

If we are talking about the average NHS psychologist & CBT type stuff - then yes, your right - utter bullshit for what some of us have been through. Although maybe it has a place for mild depression & anxiety?
 
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T

TheRedStar

Guest
Some would say; & that it is proved - that the majority of people with even the most severe of psychiatric conditions (80 to 90%) - Can be far better & far more therapeutically helped to far better recovery; with entirely med free means.

I have looked deeply into this - & this would indeed to be the truth of it, & factual. Meds make people, & keep them very ill.
There are two problems with moving away from the "take some pills and go away" approach to mental health 'care'; firstly, I daresay that the money which would be required would hammer the NHS budget so hard that it'd be like bailing the banks out all over again, and that wouldn't happen... while our government deems it important to keep amoral morons, who ruined the country through their own greed, in their jobs and neck-deep in bonuses and gold-plated pensions, individuals' health is of far less interest to them.

The second problem here is that less prescriptions for medication means reduced profits for the pharmaceuticals, and that just won't do. Even if the money were available to be spent on training and paying the wages of more specialists, and so problem no. 1 wasn't an issue, I truly believe that the drug companies are - along with the likes of Shell and BP - so powerful that they tell governments what they can and can't do; the tail wags the dog. I apologise if that sounds somewhat like New World Order paranoia, but hey - I'm mentally ill :p

Speaking of medications, that they can make - and/or keep - people very ill is something I'm not going to disagree with. However, that's the case with virtually all drugs, mental health treatments or otherwise. I just think that the problem in our context is how subjective our conditions are (for instance, bipolar disorder is often misdiagnosed for many years as unipolar depression, and not only are the drugs for the latter different from those for the former, but some anti-depressants can make bipolar conditions worse) and how both the degree of any given mental health disorder, and the dosage required to treat it, differs from person to person. This means that mental health is a very difficult context in which to identify both the correct medication and the correct amount of it.

I touched on misdiagnosis there... I think my own biggest problem with the way the system works involves how, in order to get to see a specialist, you first have to go through GPs. Now, I just don't have much faith in GPs to get their part right. I don't see it as their fault - they're simply not trained properly; as the educational system suggests, with there being separate qualifications for biological medicine and psychology, mental health is complicated enough to be a specialisation.

Would a psychologist be allowed to diagnose cancers or heart conditions? Of course not. However, those qualified to diagnose those things are deemed qualified to diagnose mental health conditions as well. It just seems wrong to me when I think about it - uncomfortably so - and as such it's no wonder that your average GP seems to view everything as 'depression'.

Personally, I'd have at least one GP at every surgery specialising in mental health conditions. This could involve a 'biological' doctor doing a special course, or a psychologist becoming a GP but only being allowed to handle MH patients.

I also have some sympathy for doctors - GPs and specialists alike - in that they're totally at the mercy of what we tell them; it's not like saying "I think I've broken my arm", for which there's a handy, guaranteed method of proving or disproving that hypothesis (an X-Ray... or a bone nearly sticking out of the arm, for that matter). However, we're not doctors - we might not think that something is relevant and so not mention it, but that same thing might be pivotal from the 'expert' point of view. And, of course, it can be extremely difficult to verbalise feelings... that's no-one's 'fault' - it's human to not only struggle to articulate feelings, but also be reticent to do so to relative strangers (which doctors are) - but nevertheless that expression from us is all doctors have to go on.

Going back to drugs... I very much think that they have their place, I really do. I'm not sure that they're suitable for people with 'situational' depressions, people who only really feel the way they do as a result of recent life events. I think that counselling is best for such patients, and it's dangerous to give them medication in the same way as it's always dangerous to give people drugs that they don't absolutely need. However, there is of course so much evidence out there that not only do many MH conditions have biological markers, but that they have fundamental genetic ones too. As such, I fully believe that many of us have tangible, discernable differences in our neural biology, ones that we were quite possibly born with, and to be honest I'm personally very skeptical about that being something which can just be 'therapied' out of someone; I think that the strongest conditions need drugs and therapy.

However, at the same time I am very uncomfortable with how strongly drugs are pushed at people. I know personally of two cases where they were used by doctors almost as blackmail... my Mum receives no help for her condition because of her unwillingness to take medication - the side-effects really hammer her, hence her reluctance to take them, but it's a case of 'no drugs, no therapy' so she's been hung out to dry. Also, a close friend of mine was told that she'd have to take medication for a while before being referred for therapy, as the doctor wanted her mind to be 'as receptive as it could be' to the non-medicinal treatment in order for it to have 'the best chance to work'. Maybe it's just me, but those words didn't sit very well with my mind.
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
Thanks for the intelligent reply Tom. I respect what you say about all this. & I don't want to disagree just for the sake of it, or to be argumentative, & I do largely agree with you; & with most of the points that you raise. I do have some different perspectives & understandings; but my views are very much in a minority on this.

It would appear that orthodox psychiatry is starting to acknowledge multiple & complex environmental aspects to MH conditions, & starting to acknowledge slightly more the perspectives & wishes of patients; as to what they find helpful. Although progress is painfully slow, & at a drunken snails pace.

I do think that pharmacology does have a place in the treatment of mental health. But in a 'perfect world' it would only be very very few people that would need it to best help; & only then as a last resort, & with minimum doses/short periods; in most cases. Drugs as it should/presently be, should only be a part of the treatment & recovery of the mentally ill; even with the most severe forms of illness, & used within a spectrum of help involving a wide range of methods & approaches to address multiple issues. Drugs are not a cure all, & however advanced medicine becomes; drugs never will be a cure; IMO - there is no chemical solution to this 'stuff'; as I firmly believe that the main cause(s) in the vast majority of cases are not biologically based.

I can't find anything other than anecdotal evidence that the main causes of mental illness are genetic predisposition/brain chemical imbalances; & in fact; from what I have read/studied, it would appear that the evidence points to this not being the case. Although there is a biological component; I would say that these are biological nuances in most cases; & I fully agree with the life long conclusions of Carl Jung - that the primary causes of severe mental illness are predominantly psychogenic in nature.

The problem as I see it; is that the opportunities & availability of comprehensive psychological & alternative help is just not there. But I do have much trust that there are highly effective ways of treating people med free. Here are a few examples/experiences of such methods -

http://spiritualrecoveries.blogspot.com/2006/05/dr-john-weir-perry-diabasis.html

http://www.moshersoteria.com/

http://www.dantescure.com/

Given the bigger picture. What would be cheaper; for me to have had comprehensive psychological & social support/help, within a healing, safe, trusting, & therapeutic environment, with the likely hood of a much fuller, if not complete recovery, in a matter of 6 weeks to a few months? Or what I have had - 20 years of severe & enduring mental illness, a life time of dependency on meds, & total incapacity for work? The cost of the former to the individual & the state is negligible & insignificant; compared to the cost of the latter. & all it would largely take is a paradigm shift.
 
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Rorschach

Rorschach

Well-known member
Founding Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
1,149
Location
W2
Yeah, my valium's kicked in now

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb ?

10 - one to change the bulb and 9 to write up the notes

10 - one to change the lightbulb and write up insufficient data, and all 10 to congratulate themselves on a job well done. Anyone for the theatre or any other equally bourgeois pastime?
 
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