Being sectioned. How can one prove that one is well?

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Lilac

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#1
Exactly that how can one prove one is well?
I know the advocates/solicitors don't help people.
 
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la femme folle

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#2
If you agree with everything the doctors say, regardless of whether you genuinely do or not, they tend to believe you are getting better, which is in reality getting better at playing the role of the obedient patient. If you agree to take medication as prescribed and don't argue about it when taking it in hospital it helps. They used to let me take it with a yogurt but made sure I had swallowed it.

Also if you keep your head down in general, don't fall out with any other patients, I stayed in my room most of the time when I was sectioned.

Best of luck.

:hug5:
 
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#3
Exactly that how can one prove one is well?
I know the advocates/solicitors don't help people.
You can't prove sanity under those circumstances, it's impossible, & arguing sanity is seen as a total lack of insight & pathological.

la femme folle is right - the only way that i know of is to play the game & use a form of reverse psychology - tell the Doctors they are right, you are ill, tell them how much they are helping & that you are starting to feel a bit better from the treatment - totally lie about all of it if necessary - they'll likely drop you like a hot potato, if that is what you really want?

i'm fully discharged from all psychiatric service for 6 years again - i have walked out of highly secure units / off section 3's / 117's.
 
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Per Ardua Ad Astra

Per Ardua Ad Astra

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#4
The duty solicitors in both the NHS and the criminal justice system, are paid out of public expenditure, and having a publicly-funded role and and place, often mind their p's and q's, not wanting to stir up too much trouble, and bite the hand that feeds, as it were.

I was discharged from a section in 2010 after quite a brief time. The solicitor had a conversation with the consultant, and an agreement was reached where I would remain as a voluntary patient. Of cos, had it gone to the tribunal, I think a member of the judiciary is involved, or some sort of advanced paralegal representative :)

This, of cos, would have given the Judiciary a toe hold on my 'case'. On the strength of the logs (and complaints I made about them), issues raised and flagged up, cutting across a section of the NHS and social services, and more than one police force, judicial oversight is something to be feared, less some professionals have their integrity and duty of care examined - and see their fucking heads ripped off in court :)
 
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#5
The duty solicitors in both the NHS and the criminal justice system, are paid out of public expenditure, and having a publicly-funded role and and place, often mind their p's and q's, not wanting to stir up too much trouble, and bite the hand that feeds, as it were.

I was discharged from a section in 2010 after quite a brief time. The solicitor had a conversation with the consultant, and an agreement was reached where I would remain as a voluntary patient. Of cos, had it gone to the tribunal, I think a member of the judiciary is involved, or some sort of advanced paralegal representative :)

This, of cos, would have given the Judiciary a toe hold on my 'case'. On the strength of the logs (and complaints I made about them), issues raised and flagged up, cutting across a section of the NHS and social services, and more than one police force, judicial oversight is something to be feared, less some professionals have their integrity and duty of care examined - and see their fucking heads ripped off in court :)
I was sectioned in August of last year during an acute episode of psychosis. I was happy to be in hospital and I didn't want to leave because I thought there were cameras installed in my house by the government. The section was lifted to a voluntary patient two weeks later and I was discharged after a further week. I didn't tell the Doctors that I thought they were part of the conspiracy and neither did I tell them about the giant serpent that I heard hissing in the corridor coming to eat me! I got better with antipsychotics. I haven't relapsed and I've returned to work now.

I agree with the other posters, you get discharged if you have insight and are willing to take the pills.

Best wishesxx
 
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Per Ardua Ad Astra

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#6
I was sectioned in August of last year during an acute episode of psychosis. I was happy to be in hospital and I didn't want to leave because I thought there were cameras installed in my house by the government. The section was lifted to a voluntary patient two weeks later and I was discharged after a further week. I didn't tell the Doctors that I thought they were part of the conspiracy and neither did I tell them about the giant serpent that I heard hissing in the corridor coming to eat me! I got better with antipsychotics. I haven't relapsed and I've returned to work now.

I agree with the other posters, you get discharged if you have insight and are willing to take the pills.

Best wishesxx
Hurrah for you
 
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Lilac

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#7
You can't prove sanity under those circumstances, it's impossible, & arguing sanity is seen as a total lack of insight & pathological.

la femme folle is right - the only way that i know of is to play the game & use a form of reverse psychology - tell the Doctors they are right, you are ill, tell them how much they are helping & that you are starting to feel a bit better from the treatment - totally lie about all of it if necessary - they'll likely drop you like a hot potato, if that is what you really want?

i'm fully discharged from all psychiatric service for 6 years again - i have walked out of highly secure units / off section 3's / 117's.
Thanks but then how does a doctor prove they are well. Not everyone is forced to take drugs so one must be able to prove wellness without drugs.
 
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#8
Thanks but then how does a doctor prove they are well. Not everyone is forced to take drugs so one must be able to prove wellness without drugs.
Lilac, it doesn't work like that, the undiagnosed don't have to prove that they are well - they are 'sane' by default, although a lot of them are in ways far more ill than we are. The realities of this current society / culture / system / civilisation are very unfortunately what they currently are.

If 'you' present - act / speak / behave in certain ways you risk the attention & treatment of current mental health services within their current remit, with all that entails - that is the way it is. Other ways of presenting 'behaving & speaking' have the effect of being left alone by mental health services.

Of course the whole area of mental health (as well as many other areas) is largely unanswered / unknown, especially by biomedical psychiatry, & all the things it goes into in a full sense concerning social, psychological, biological & spiritual well being / health, in regards to individuals as well as the species / humanity as a whole. But the vast majority of society / people / mental health professionals are largely Not really that interested in such matters in a broader & deeper sense, very few people are, or ever have been.

You can't beat the system. i know it's a crap hand of cards to be dealt, But that is the hand of cards that you have & the only hope imo is to play them to your own advantage as best as that is possible, within the realities of your overall circumstances & within the realities of the current society / system. What else can you do?

As for who / what is really mad / insane - imo 90% or more of humanity is locked into a mass Egoic Insanity & this Civilisation is pretty much largely insane itself. This Earth is a Lunatic Asylum. It's ironic being labelled crazy in a society that is insane. But none of that gets away from the facts that it's all still the ways it is. Closely observe & study it all, research it all, see how it all operates, & move your chess pieces accordingly.
 
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#10
I'll see if I can give it a go. xxxxx
A fairly long time ago during a stay under section in psychiatric hospital, some health professional said to me to get informed, & it was about the best advice given.

As far as it's possible for you to learn the area - it's a lot easier now with the internet & Amazon.

These little books are good for starters -

A Straight Talking Introduction to Psychiatric Diagnosis
by Lucy Johnstone

A Straight Talking Introduction to Being a Mental Health Service User
by Peter Beresford and Richard Bentall

A Straight Talking Introduction to the Causes of Mental Health Problems
by John Read and Pete Sanders

A Straight Talking Introduction to Psychiatric Drugs
by Joanna Moncrieff and Richard Bentall

There are loads of books & web sites that also explain mental health law & it's application.

There is loads that can be studied to get some kind of a handle on it all. Health professionals aren't practising some kind of unfathomable magick, they're operating under certain training, knowledge, protocols & criteria. As crap as the Game is it can be played.
 
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#11
I'll see if I can give it a go. xxxxx
Beware Lilac as well - it's possible to also end up in the complete opposite position - abandoned by services, & arguing illness, trying to access services.

Depending on your actual state of overall health / condition & overall life circumstances, it does need careful consideration.
 
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Lilac

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#12
I appreciate what you say but they tend to lock me up for other people's behaviour. As you say I haven't got a leg to stand on because they don't like me or whatever but it's not normal to lock someone up and put needles in them and call them sick when they haven't got an ounce of sickness in them. And they don't say what behaviour they want. Even if I did cowtow to them I wouldn't be able to forever they are wrong but then sadly for me only no one cares about that.
 
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Lilac

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#13
Beware Lilac as well - it's possible to also end up in the complete opposite position - abandoned by services, & arguing illness, trying to access services.

Depending on your actual state of overall health / condition & overall life circumstances, it does need careful consideration.

Thanks I appreciate but I have never contacted them.
 
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#14
I appreciate what you say but they tend to lock me up for other people's behaviour. As you say I haven't got a leg to stand on because they don't like me or whatever but it's not normal to lock someone up and put needles in them and call them sick when they haven't got an ounce of sickness in them. And they don't say what behaviour they want. Even if I did cowtow to them I wouldn't be able to forever they are wrong but then sadly for me only no one cares about that.

Thanks I appreciate but I have never contacted them.
i Never contacted them either & was forced sectioned 4 times. i don't agree with the current system either, But i can understand why / how it operates under the current society / system / remit.

i don't either fully agree with their evaluations & treatments of things.

i don't agree with biomedical psychiatry to begin with.

i don't think that i was / am unwell entirely in the ways that the mental health system / psychiatry / society says & perceives i was, & i think / feel that everything could have been far far better responded to & approached, & still could be.

But none of that on one level is really the point Lilac - i won't get psychiatry / society to see & understand things from my own points of view, & it's largely pointless to try. i can have my say here & there but it really makes little to No difference. The point to me is that i see & understand it all for what it is, & live my life accordingly as fully & freely within it all.

Trying to argue sanity & everything within understandable terms doesn't / won't really work within the current system / society. & regardless of the exact reasons, we get treated as we do because that is what they deem necessary in regards to what they perceive in our speech / behaviour / Being. There is their own reasoning for it all, which is understandable on certain levels.

All i'm trying to say is that if you want away from them all then you have to swim around without splashing about too much, you have to give them reason to lose their attention & interest in you. In my experience that doesn't then make everything suddenly that wonderful or that easier either - as we're still left with having to navigate & live within the realities of the current society / system & our individual life circumstances with all that entails, & with all the challenges involved.

i'm Not saying that you don't have grounds for disagreeing with them all in ways, But there must be a reasoning why you keep being treated under the mental health act?
 
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ramboghettouk

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#15
Thanks I appreciate but I have never contacted them.
'

you may not have contacted them yet, but if you come out a bin certain things will stick, employers won't touch you and to survive you may need to contact them
 
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Lilac

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#16
'

you may not have contacted them yet, but if you come out a bin certain things will stick, employers won't touch you and to survive you may need to contact them
I appreciate your advice and I note you say 'if' I come out, but it would be corrupt to have to contact an institute one has never needed. It is also corrupt of them not to listen which they are adamant they do. I want them to close they treat people dreadfully and you may know yourself that people spend years and years in them and those who send one there are never satisfied and never resolve complaints. They do not have a success rate in the slightest and are of no help in my experience. Besides others have been released quicker than me so why are I?
 
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Lilac

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#17
I am so grateful for your advice and everyone knows that the world is not a perfect place but to call yourself sick when you are not is wrong and it is corrupt to ask you to do it. And I use 'you' not at anyone in particular but just as a general term.

The Health Service say they want to know when things go wrong and I swear I will challenge them for all my life.

They might not have to prove they are well but they cannot just go round calling well people sick which is what they have done to me.

Have a fantastic and hopefully section free evening.
 
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#18
They might not have to prove they are well but they cannot just go round calling well people sick which is what they have done to me.
Can i ask, if you don't mind, what is a brief overview of your psychiatric history - diagnoses / main symptoms / experiences etc?
 
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ramboghettouk

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#19
I am so grateful for your advice and everyone knows that the world is not a perfect place but to call yourself sick when you are not is wrong and it is corrupt to ask you to do it. And I use 'you' not at anyone in particular but just as a general term.

The Health Service say they want to know when things go wrong and I swear I will challenge them for all my life.

They might not have to prove they are well but they cannot just go round calling well people sick which is what they have done to me.

Have a fantastic and hopefully section free evening.
a lot of people who use that language aren't med compliant and spend the rest of their lives in and out of hospital, hospitals they themselves are on about been awful

or rather i should say more in the past nowadays you stand a good chance of ending up on the street and dying on the street

i never noticed i used the word if you come out i should have used the word when, inevitably you'll come out the nhs has limited resources
 
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Lilac

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#20
a lot of people who use that language aren't med compliant and spend the rest of their lives in and out of hospital, hospitals they themselves are on about been awful

or rather i should say more in the past nowadays you stand a good chance of ending up on the street and dying on the street

i never noticed i used the word if you come out i should have used the word when, inevitably you'll come out the nhs has limited resources
But as you say if you (general term) are drug compliant which you have no choice but to be then you are in and out of hospital anyway. It is slavery.