Avoidant Personality disorder and terrified to talk on the phone

[I_Was_Punished]

I have a BPD diagnosis but i am aware you can have more than one Personality disorder. For a while now i have wondered whether i have Avoidant Personality disorder. It's difficult because some of these disorders share the same symptoms, Avoidant sharing some with social anxiety. but i'm sure i have more than social anxiety because i am very reclusive and only go out when i have to and only talk to people i know. When i am out i never approach people i don't know and if i go to social events i usually have a few drinks before i go and then more when i get there and i don't talk to people or seek out people. I much prefer to walk alone in the woods than go to a busy shopping mall. I put off doing things i need that need me interact with people because i'd rather not face them.

But one thing thats really strong is i am terrified of talking to people on the phone, i don't mean nervous i mean terrified. I have made online friendships where the other person eventually says we should speak on the phone and i can never do it and people don't understand that i just can't do it because i am so scared. i can handle online interactions and although i am scared to meet people face to face i can pluck up the courage at times but speaking on the phone is one thing i just can't ever handle. its like i am scared people won't like me and i hate my voice. i am scared i won't know what to talk about because i have had some very awkward phone chats in the past where i struggled to find things to say and the awkward silences are awful on the phone. In an online interaction you don't have to worry so much about keeping the text flowing and even face to face its easier to deal with i think, on the phone i just struggle and when anyone asks to speak on the phone i am terrified. I wondered if anyone else feels this? And could i have Avoidant personality?

 

[Tin Woodman]

Being introverted is certainly not a negative thing and not uncommon. I imagine that while you avoid interaction with others you probably would be considered highly intelligent because of spending so much time introspectively.

I share your distaste for verbal conversation over the phone. I just do not like conversing with people without the ability to read facial cues, it is like tasting food without seeing the food or knowing what it is. I get most of my social cues from reading another person's expressions and find it deeply unsettling to not have this tool. You are not strange for feeling this way. I have found that video chat/facetime helps with this. Would you be more comfortable seeing someone's face while talking to them?

 

[karl7]

I have a BPD diagnosis but i am aware you can have more than one Personality disorder. For a while now i have wondered whether i have Avoidant Personality disorder. It's difficult because some of these disorders share the same symptoms, Avoidant sharing some with social anxiety. but i'm sure i have more than social anxiety because i am very reclusive and only go out when i have to and only talk to people i know. When i am out i never approach people i don't know and if i go to social events i usually have a few drinks before i go and then more when i get there and i don't talk to people or seek out people. I much prefer to walk alone in the woods than go to a busy shopping mall. I put off doing things i need that need me interact with people because i'd rather not face them.

But one thing thats really strong is i am terrified of talking to people on the phone, i don't mean nervous i mean terrified. I have made online friendships where the other person eventually says we should speak on the phone and i can never do it and people don't understand that i just can't do it because i am so scared. i can handle online interactions and although i am scared to meet people face to face i can pluck up the courage at times but speaking on the phone is one thing i just can't ever handle. its like i am scared people won't like me and i hate my voice. i am scared i won't know what to talk about because i have had some very awkward phone chats in the past where i struggled to find things to say and the awkward silences are awful on the phone. In an online interaction you don't have to worry so much about keeping the text flowing and even face to face its easier to deal with i think, on the phone i just struggle and when anyone asks to speak on the phone i am terrified. I wondered if anyone else feels this? And could i have Avoidant personality?

i know how you feel about phones, im the same, i rarely answer the phone....also yeah i think you could have avoidant PD as well....just ask your pdoc anyway for clarity

 

[WhySoSerious]

I would be reluctant to self-diagnose any kind of personality disorder without a full formulation and work up of the problem with a psychologist. We are avoidant for any number of reasons. We may feel anxious and want to decrease that feeling. We may have shame and worry people may judge us negatively. We may avoid going out because we are depressed and feel demotivated. Avoidance in itself is linked with any number of MH conditions so I would always rule out other reasons for avoidance before stamping a APD diagnosis on someone.

On a side note the diagnostic manual for personality disorders indicates that you need to meet at least 4 out of 7 of the following to have avoidant personality disorder:

1) Avoidance of jobs/tasks that involve having significant social contact with others because of fear of criticism, disapproval or rejection/ This also includes passing promotions up rather than dealing with people. You have to have at least TWO examples of this in your life that are significant and impacting on your daily life/functioning

2) Avoid getting involved with people unless you are certain they will like you. If you don't know whether someone likes you, you wouldn't make the first move. This also includes almost never initiating a social relationship

3) Finding it hard to open up to people you are close to. This includes restraint in intimate relationships for fear of shame or ridicule. To get that criteria it needs to be true for almost ALL relationships/friendships. You also need to give reasons as to why you do this (TWO as a minimum)

4) Often worry about being criticised or rejected in social situations. To get this criteria you have to be PREOCCUPIED with being criticised in social situations "most of the time". You need to provide at least a few examples AND the amount of time a day you worry about it.

5) Usually quiet when you meet new people. This should never fall in what would be seen as "normal" for a shy person. There must be a view that you are socially inept, personally unappealing, inferior to others. The person must also acknowledge this belief to meet the criteria and give "many" examples.

6) Belief that you are not as good, smart, or attractive as other people. There needs to be evidence that this is an unreasonable belief. Many examples should be given of times when you have believed this and the contexts

7) Afraid to try new things. To meet this criteria you should also be unusually reluctant to take personal risks (this isn't a little bit of mild discomfort, it is significantly impacting your life) or engage in new activities in case of embarrassment. There must be at least THREE examples of when this has impacted life significantly.

In short most people won't meet this criteria. Being a "little nervous" about answering/speaking on the phone, meeting new people etc isn't enough to qualify by a huge margin. Most APD people I have met are crippled by it to the point they have no social contact with anyone at all. They don't try anything new. Their life has shrunk. Even "close" relatives are distant and difficult to communicate with.

Hope this helps. I think sometimes we can over-analyse our own minds and add a diagnosis that isn't there. Personally I wouldn't diagnose anyone with less than 5 on that list of 7 and even then I would expect some really meaty examples not throw away "I get a bit nervous".

 

[I_Was_Punished]

I would be reluctant to self-diagnose any kind of personality disorder without a full formulation and work up of the problem with a psychologist. We are avoidant for any number of reasons. We may feel anxious and want to decrease that feeling. We may have shame and worry people may judge us negatively. We may avoid going out because we are depressed and feel demotivated. Avoidance in itself is linked with any number of MH conditions so I would always rule out other reasons for avoidance before stamping a APD diagnosis on someone.

On a side note the diagnostic manual for personality disorders indicates that you need to meet at least 4 out of 7 of the following to have avoidant personality disorder:

1) Avoidance of jobs/tasks that involve having significant social contact with others because of fear of criticism, disapproval or rejection/ This also includes passing promotions up rather than dealing with people. You have to have at least TWO examples of this in your life that are significant and impacting on your daily life/functioning

2) Avoid getting involved with people unless you are certain they will like you. If you don't know whether someone likes you, you wouldn't make the first move. This also includes almost never initiating a social relationship

3) Finding it hard to open up to people you are close to. This includes restraint in intimate relationships for fear of shame or ridicule. To get that criteria it needs to be true for almost ALL relationships/friendships. You also need to give reasons as to why you do this (TWO as a minimum)

4) Often worry about being criticised or rejected in social situations. To get this criteria you have to be PREOCCUPIED with being criticised in social situations "most of the time". You need to provide at least a few examples AND the amount of time a day you worry about it.

5) Usually quiet when you meet new people. This should never fall in what would be seen as "normal" for a shy person. There must be a view that you are socially inept, personally unappealing, inferior to others. The person must also acknowledge this belief to meet the criteria and give "many" examples.

6) Belief that you are not as good, smart, or attractive as other people. There needs to be evidence that this is an unreasonable belief. Many examples should be given of times when you have believed this and the contexts

7) Afraid to try new things. To meet this criteria you should also be unusually reluctant to take personal risks (this isn't a little bit of mild discomfort, it is significantly impacting your life) or engage in new activities in case of embarrassment. There must be at least THREE examples of when this has impacted life significantly.

In short most people won't meet this criteria. Being a "little nervous" about answering/speaking on the phone, meeting new people etc isn't enough to qualify by a huge margin. Most APD people I have met are crippled by it to the point they have no social contact with anyone at all. They don't try anything new. Their life has shrunk. Even "close" relatives are distant and difficult to communicate with.

Hope this helps. I think sometimes we can over-analyse our own minds and add a diagnosis that isn't there. Personally I wouldn't diagnose anyone with less than 5 on that list of 7 and even then I would expect some really meaty examples not throw away "I get a bit nervous".

you just described me very well, on all 7 points

 

[jajingna]

Once I was getting drunk with some teacher coworkers in a bar. This was in Seoul, Korea 12 years ago. Part of our job was calling up the kids once a week for them to get a little practice with phone English. I despised this so much I simply couldn't do it unless perhaps I was the only one in the staffroom. I guess I got the fear of being judged by others even when they're not actually paying attention to me. Anyway, in the bar I told my coworker, man, I just can't do those calls, or something like that. He was a guy who took his job seriously, and he just reacted with anger saying, "Do your job!" He just figured I was a slacker I guess. There was no explaining the anxiety I felt about that chore, I guess, because I strongly doubt he would have said, oh, sorry to hear that. His reaction was more typical. I'm not sure many people even believe this type of experience, like phone phobia, is real.

I have a worse example in mind. This was 8 years ago in Montreal. An attractive young woman there said, "I really like you" in a way that showed interested. I may have been close to 20 years older so that was a bit odd for me but sometimes 43 year old men date 24 yr old women. But I felt like another guy I was a bar acquaintance with, was a spectator/judge to this, like he was following our conversation. So I didn't even ask her out. I just said, "You're really good-looking," and afterwards I knew she was upset and felt rejected probably. It was weird even leaving that bar not having acted how I would have liked, and now for whatever reason I think back on that often, something from eight years ago. I even talked to her a few times there after that, but all woman-to-man interest was gone, or maybe she was just horny that particular time. I could never explain these phobias to anybody, they're so peculiar. Or that's how I feel about them anyway.

 

[Deleted member 92692]

I have a BPD diagnosis but i am aware you can have more than one Personality disorder. For a while now i have wondered whether i have Avoidant Personality disorder. It's difficult because some of these disorders share the same symptoms, Avoidant sharing some with social anxiety. but i'm sure i have more than social anxiety because i am very reclusive and only go out when i have to and only talk to people i know. When i am out i never approach people i don't know and if i go to social events i usually have a few drinks before i go and then more when i get there and i don't talk to people or seek out people. I much prefer to walk alone in the woods than go to a busy shopping mall. I put off doing things i need that need me interact with people because i'd rather not face them.

But one thing thats really strong is i am terrified of talking to people on the phone, i don't mean nervous i mean terrified. I have made online friendships where the other person eventually says we should speak on the phone and i can never do it and people don't understand that i just can't do it because i am so scared. i can handle online interactions and although i am scared to meet people face to face i can pluck up the courage at times but speaking on the phone is one thing i just can't ever handle. its like i am scared people won't like me and i hate my voice. i am scared i won't know what to talk about because i have had some very awkward phone chats in the past where i struggled to find things to say and the awkward silences are awful on the phone. In an online interaction you don't have to worry so much about keeping the text flowing and even face to face its easier to deal with i think, on the phone i just struggle and when anyone asks to speak on the phone i am terrified. I wondered if anyone else feels this? And could i have Avoidant personality?

M
I dont have your disorder but i feel your pain. I live my life avoiding human contact wherever i can

 

[Riah3]

Same here. I have BPD and never actually felt this way but over time my insecurities grew and I would talk lesser and lesser to friends and family and I stopped leaving my house, eventually I got to a point where I avoided leaving my house at pretty much all costs unless I HAD to. I was experiencing depersonalization/derealization a lot at this time. And talking on the phone with a friend was sooo unimaginable. I was having therapy sessions over the phone ironically enough, this was during the start of quarantine. Anyways, my therapist asked me to call a friend as part of my homework and I started sobbing saying I couldn’t I couldn’t. But I FORCED myself and just called a friend. It was rewarding to say the least. I find that I just have to spontaneously do something before I can convince myself to back out. I cry when I have to call my job (and it can sometimes take me hours to do it) school or doctors It was very difficult and luckily I had help from my mom, she made a lot of phone calls for me during that time and I continued to see a therapist that specializes in personality disorders and I’ve been getting better. I’m actually wanting to leave the house nowadays even though I still avoid ppl I just drive around for hours or go through a drive through restaurant. For me it happens in extremely stressful periods (this has happened more than once) and just forcing myself to do things to see that it isn’t all that bad helps. If time goes by where I avoid talking to ppl or I don’t leave my house it can start back up. As having bpd today was hard for me, I was feeling ok not in the best mood but ok, I asked two friends to FaceTime and they continued putting it off, i took it personal and felt very angry and sad and not getting to talk to a friend on the phone in a while is only making me want to talk less. I really feel like I’m losing my friends for not talking to them for months 😭 sorry for the length of this message thx to those who read this and also I hope this helps I was punished, although I don’t have APD I can to a degree feel what you feel you aren’t alone I hope it gets better for you

 

[Riah3]

Same here. I have BPD and never actually felt this way but over time my insecurities grew and I would talk lesser and lesser to friends and family and I stopped leaving my house, eventually I got to a point where I avoided leaving my house at pretty much all costs unless I HAD to. I was experiencing depersonalization/derealization a lot at this time. And talking on the phone with a friend was sooo unimaginable. I was having therapy sessions over the phone ironically enough, this was during the start of quarantine. Anyways, my therapist asked me to call a friend as part of my homework and I started sobbing saying I couldn’t I couldn’t. But I FORCED myself and just called a friend. It was rewarding to say the least. I find that I just have to spontaneously do something before I can convince myself to back out. I cry when I have to call my job (and it can sometimes take me hours to do it) school or doctors It was very difficult and luckily I had help from my mom, she made a lot of phone calls for me during that time and I continued to see a therapist that specializes in personality disorders and I’ve been getting better. I’m actually wanting to leave the house nowadays even though I still avoid ppl I just drive around for hours or go through a drive through restaurant. For me it happens in extremely stressful periods (this has happened more than once) and just forcing myself to do things to see that it isn’t all that bad helps. If time goes by where I avoid talking to ppl or I don’t leave my house it can start back up. As having bpd today was hard for me, I was feeling ok not in the best mood but ok, I asked two friends to FaceTime and they continued putting it off, i took it personal and felt very angry and sad and not getting to talk to a friend on the phone in a while is only making me want to talk less. I really feel like I’m losing my friends for not talking to them for months 😭 sorry for the length of this message thx to those who read this and also I hope this helps I was punished, although I don’t have APD I can to a degree feel what you feel you aren’t alone I hope it gets better for you

I feel like what I wrote may be a bit confusing, around 5 years ago this avoidance started, I believe it ties down to my insecurities and anxiety and it has come and gone over the years.

 

[sophie1920]

i have bpd mixed attachment style both avoidant and anxious . as a diagnosis. im in love with someone who is avoidant . he makes stuff up to make it seem he has more going on in his life. we broke up 4 years ago . recently we got close again . he disappeared just a litte- not even alot. i felt abandoned and panik attacks came. i tried to explain how i felt. he said he needed to disapear for a bit . i just asked if he could let me know and say 'its not u and i need to disapear a bit' but i guess we were both freaking out . its pretty unresolvable. its a love that makes both of us physically sick with the same fear of abandonment . im chatty, forward, introverted extrovert and very analitical - had alot of time on my own as a child . i get close and any change i sabotage by calling the whole thing off . convinced thats what they have done anyway and im being played or being made a fool of. this time round i sent an email admitting i loved him - his inability to speak give no reasurance - so i die inside . so i distance myself . i went out with an anxious attachment style and i had none of this anziety - but i didnt feel as deep as i do with this guy- we have a rediculas amount in common. incl age and birthday, sence of humour, upbringing- its quite electrifiing. but i dont trust him to stick around - its awful. awful in a head is a mess for weeks , punishing myself , self loathing , triggered to fxxx - thats my side of things. from an avoidant, anxious style .

 

[DitRichard]

I am very nervous on the phone with women I do not know well, to the extent that it is palpable for both of us, despite my efforts to keep control, and I have been told that I sound nervous, distant and the like. I certainly feel these things, plus dry mouth, unintentional silences, the works. Oddly, I can use the phone confidently as part of my job. There seems to be some connection between my relationship with women and being judged by my voice. I believe I have Avoidant Personality Disorder and that the unnatural way I use the phone is one indication among numerous others.

 

[Riah3]

I am very nervous on the phone with women I do not know well, to the extent that it is palpable for both of us, despite my efforts to keep control, and I have been told that I sound nervous, distant and the like. I certainly feel these things, plus dry mouth, unintentional silences, the works. Oddly, I can use the phone confidently as part of my job. There seems to be some connection between my relationship with women and being judged by my voice. I believe I have Avoidant Personality Disorder and that the unnatural way I use the phone is one indication among numerous others.

I suggest maybe trying propranolol for when you need to talk to a woman on the phone? I take it and it helps with performance anxiety. I’m really sorry that you’re going through this I wish I could help

 

[DitRichard]

I suggest maybe trying propranolol for when you need to talk to a woman on the phone? I take it and it helps with performance anxiety. I’m really sorry that you’re going through this I wish I could help

You have helped, Riah3. I will request the propanol, although this may not be for a while as we are in a third covid lockdown and doctors won't see us at the moment.

 

[Riah3]

You have helped, Riah3. I will request the propanol, although this may not be for a while as we are in a third covid lockdown and doctors won't see us at the moment.

That really is unfortunate, I started with 20 mg and saw a difference but after a month I jumped to 40 and then 80 lol because I really like the drug and it’s helpful for me bc I’m a singer I need to perform ya know. In America we have telehealth which means I’ve never met my psychiatrist in person. On the computer FaceTime basically same with my therapist

 

[DitRichard]

That really is unfortunate, I started with 20 mg and saw a difference but after a month I jumped to 40 and then 80 lol because I really like the drug and it’s helpful for me bc I’m a singer I need to perform ya know. In America we have telehealth which means I’ve never met my psychiatrist in person. On the computer FaceTime basically same with my therapist

Computer FaceTime sounds like a good idea to me.