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Are we Tougher ?

T

Twylight

Former member
I for one have lost many a friend due to mental health problems and i've no doubt that some or most of you have
But for those of us that have survived all the problems, and the constant stigma, we come across everday in the community - has it made us stronger and tougher than - Joe Public ?
 
A

Apotheosis

Former member
Were we stronger in certain ways to begin with? Or is it a case that going through pain (mental, emotional & physical) makes us stronger. I do think that pain & suffering leads to growth, & pain does indeed make us strong.

To my mind - we gain in spiritual strength; & that there is a lot of meaning in going through these experiences.

I like these 2 Quotes on the subject ~

"It is true that overcoming obstacles and difficulties accelerates spiritual progress. The most serious lifetime difficulties, like severe psychiatric illness or physical disability, may be signs of life progress, not regress. In my opinion, it is often the very strongest souls who have chosen to shoulder these burdens because they provide great opportunities for growth. If a lifetime can be likened to a year in school, then lifetimes such as these can be likened to a year in graduate school. This is probably why difficult lifetimes are more frequently recalled during regressions. The easier lifetimes, the "rest" periods, are usually not as significant."

Brian Weiss, MD - Through Time Into Healing

"...there are often times when custodial care is required for a person, because he is doing work. You see, I'm very far out and I'm somewhat scary from a societal point of view, because I'm not sure I can tell you that two years in a mental hospital isn't much more advantageous in one's growth as a being than four years of a college education. And that maybe six months in prison could be comparable to a post-graduate education in education."

Ram Dass - The Only Dance There Is
 
schiz01

schiz01

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
721
Location
Australia
Reminds me of the saying.......If it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger
Its true in some regards......what some of us deal with everyday would bring a normal person to his knees.
 
A

Apotheosis

Former member
Reminds me of the saying.......If it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger
Its true in some regards......what some of us deal with everyday would bring a normal person to his knees.

That was Friedrich Nietzsche who said that.

In the consciousness of the truth he has perceived, man now sees everywhere only the awfulness or the absurdity of existence and loathing seizes him.
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

It's the problem that so many people have in either acknowledging or understanding what the experiences are really like for some us; that have been through severely altered states. I bother less & less in trying to explain things to most people; they are either not interested; or are incapable of understanding - or both.

To most people; I don't think that there is any depth that goes beyond mere appearances; & there is a very wilful insistence to not think about anything that much, to not question anything that much, but instead this desire to live as comfortably & hedonisticaly as possible; with as little thought as possible.
 
Q

quality factor

Former member
That was Friedrich Nietzsche who said that.

In the consciousness of the truth he has perceived, man now sees everywhere only the awfulness or the absurdity of existence and loathing seizes him.
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

It's the problem that so many people have in either acknowledging or understanding what the experiences are really like for some us; that have been through severely altered states. I bother less & less in trying to explain things to most people; they are either not interested; or are incapable of understanding - or both.

To most people; I don't think that there is any depth that goes beyond mere appearances; & there is a very wilful insistence to not think about anything that much, to not question anything that much, but instead this desire to live as comfortably & hedonisticaly as possible; with as little thought as possible.

I think there is a tendency for some people to philosophise too much and not get on with the realities of day to day living and the reality of the challenges thrown at us.
I don't see anything wrong with wanting to live comfortably, it is a persons'
right as long as it is within their means and an honest existence.
Some people are very thoughtful in a quiet and peaceful manner which is acceptable to them. Appearances can be deceptive, and one shouldn't rush to draw conclusions.

QF.
 
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A

Apotheosis

Former member
I think there is a tendency for some people to philosophise too much and not get on with the realities of day to day living and the reality of the challenges thrown at us.

There is also the perspective that philosophy & depth of thought can help people to better deal with life challenges & the human condition. That what can loosely be termed philosophical thinking is about one of the more better ways of dealing with existential dilemmas & the very real problems facing humanity.

Some would say that a very large part of the problem with this planet; is that of the 6 Billion odd hairless apes that make up the dominant species here; most tend to not give much thought to anything much at all. There are of course exceptions; thank god.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to live comfortably, it is a persons' right as long as it is within their means and an honest existence.

It depends where that leads when you play the tape forward - 70 odd million people in this country alone; living a completely unsustainable existence; with an economy that has catastrophic failure built into the system; utterly dependant on Oil; & facing 'peak oil' imminently, with the way that we are living directly contributing to irreversible climate change; catastrophic & systematic eco-system collapse; & all manor of other problems. Nothing wrong with living comfortably? & in doing so maybe most people can bury their heads in the sand & not think about too much; & 'we' can maybe eek things out for another 50-100 years, & than what? With no oil; environmental devastation, total worldwide economic collapse & failure, & everything that will result? Just so a certain amount of humans in the West could live comfortably for a couple of hundred years; & fill up their houses & lives with plastic rubbish from China that they don't need!

Can you explain to me QF what is so admirable about the way most people are living? Because I really don't see it.

Some people are very thoughtful in a quiet and peaceful manner which is acceptable to them. Appearances can be deceptive, and one shouldn't rush to draw conclusions.

I live in a quiet & peaceful manor - however you mistakenly perceive me QF.

Maybe I generalise too much? But I have my own mind & I'll make my own conclusions - & when I look out at humanity; an explosion of exponential population growth; on a planet that is reaching it's maximum carrying capacity; with no sign of that growth stopping, with the entire thing being based on a phoney monetary system, funding endless War & genocide; total dependence on the finite resource of Oil; the systematic destruction of the eco-systems that we rely on to survive - when I look at all that; this sea of hairless apes; that run around doing nothing much of anything of any constructive importance, consequence or gravity; then I don't have much hope that it's all going to carry on; how on earth can it? & I feel that at least I haven't wasted things by using my brain as much as I could have done, & in not taking part as much as possible in the sheer lunacy that passes for normality & civilisation.
 
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D

diddypinks

Former member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
1,946
hell yes

my sister who i live with gets periodic depression and she crys for a week to 10 days in these period constantly her problems lie in relationships she has commitment phobia and gets very fearfull while chatting i told her that i have low depression a lot of days and she was like thats awful i said no ive just got used to it. ive survived a suicide attempt where i realised a lot about life and how precious it is and am coming up to a year off drink. i believe i can deal with anything that comes my way and am made of nine parts steel. schizophrenia has made me stronger.(y)
 
keepsafe

keepsafe

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
13,624
Good on you diddypinks! 1 year off the drink thats great
 
Q

quality factor

Former member
I for one have lost many a friend due to mental health problems and i've no doubt that some or most of you have
But for those of us that have survived all the problems, and the constant stigma, we come across everday in the community - has it made us stronger and tougher than - Joe Public ?

In conversation with my cpn recently, she commented that she thought I was tough.
In my case it hasn't been about being tough, it has been about battling to have the resolve to survive. I am fifty six and have suffered severe mental health issues since I was nineteen. I have had two long hospitalisations and attended a day hospital for many years as a day patient. I have survived suicide attempts, lost my job and still I carry on trying achieve a reasonable state of 'wellness'.
Whether it has made me stronger or tougher than Joe Public I don't know.
When I am at my lowest I don't feel strong or tough, but isn't it how others perceive me to be that maybe counts? How you present to the medics or family, friends, bosses colleagues etc may not be indicative of what you are really going through. I'm very good at putting on 'my mask' at important times, but when I take it off again, more often than not I'm in shreds.
But because I am still around after thirty odd years of strife am I tough or strong or could it be the human's instict to survive?

QF.
 
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