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Are the Voices Part of Ourselves or Not ?

GTP

GTP

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The thread goes like this : is the answer "yes" , "no" or "more complicated than that" ?

If the answer is "yes" then they are under our control : they have no presence in the world, they can be predictable and can be studied easily. The thing is that I've read in a book "From the Trenches" by Alice Miller that all of the people and voices inside of yourself are part of you and are you. I don't know how true this is or how true it can be, but it's worth considering.

If the answer is "no" then they are a form of aggression. They can be of whatever nature and there is no clear reason as to what and how triggers them.

If the answer is "more complicated than that" I'll let you guys fill in the blanks.

What are your guys' thoughts? I'd like to hear your arguments and settle this somehow.
 
GTP

GTP

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The thread goes like this : is the answer "yes" , "no" or "more complicated than that" ?

If the answer is "yes" then they are under our control : they have no presence in the world, they can be predictable and can be studied easily. The thing is that I've read in a book "From the Trenches" by Alice Miller that all of the people and voices inside of yourself are part of you and are you. I don't know how true this is or how true it can be, but it's worth considering.

If the answer is "no" then they are a form of aggression. They can be of whatever nature and there is no clear reason as to what and how triggers them.

If the answer is "more complicated than that" I'll let you guys fill in the blanks.

What are your guys' thoughts? I'd like to hear your arguments and settle this somehow.
Furthermore, if they weren't part of ourselves and would have some objective presence, wouldn't someone else be able to hear them too ?
 
NWiddi

NWiddi

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Personally I seem to have settled on yes, I believe they are a part of us rather than some outside influence but I've given serious consideration to all the other options.

My own personal experiences that I believe are in favour of them being a part of us is they seem capable of effecting the body in some really strange ways, my voice has taken responsibility for causing me pleasure and pain (tactile) hallucinations along with olfactory (smell), gustatory (taste) and auditory but fortunately he never mastered visual hallucinations, I had very minor visual distortions but I never saw a fully formed image of someone or something I knew to be not really there like some of my voice hearing friends experience.

I believe my voice used to be able to manipulate my dreams, I'd go as far to say my dreamscape was his playground completely and utterly, he took credit for creating extremely vivid dreams, lucid dreams and dreams within dreams, I went through a period before medication where all my dreams consistently featured violence towards me but after taking medication my dreams returned to more neutral themes.

I also feel my voice could alter my emotional state, after taking medication this ability seems to have diminished greatly but I still feel the emotions of my voice which are mostly his anger towards me and his frustration which is mostly about being medicated but I know these emotions aren't generated by my own mind.

I find it difficult to believe anything external could have such an influence over my mind (both conscious and subconscious) and body.
 
C

CT3

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NO. They have intentionally obliterated my life. Right after I gave repentance.

That is the truth (my voices say that 15 times a day).

I lost the love of my life and my daughter right after I totally repented. I went insane right after I gave full repentance. They are demons.
 
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futurista

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Even if they are internal, it may be that we cannot control them. Like our heart rate is internal and is actually controlled by the brain, but we cannot control it directly. We can take medications or use some other techniques to "heal" too high heart rate. Instead of saying, for example, that the devil is draining power from us when our heart rate is too high.

If they are external it is not necessary a form of aggression. It can be a blessing, a gift. A child may perceive a change of a diaper as a form of aggression, because no one asks them for permission. But actually it is a form of care.
 
C

CT3

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NO. They have intentionally obliterated my life. Right after I gave repentance.

That is the truth (my voices say that 15 times a day).

I lost the love of my life and my daughter right after I totally repented. I went insane right after I gave full repentance. They are demons.
There are angels in my head too....
 
Lone_wanderer

Lone_wanderer

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Here's a funny thing, when I was ill last year they sounded like other people, but when the meds started to kick in they began to sound like me, now they are just receding, distant echoes at the edge of my hearing which I can't make out are so quiet.
 
NWiddi

NWiddi

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Here's a funny thing, when I was ill last year they sounded like other people, but when the meds started to kick in they began to sound like me, now they are just receding, distant echoes at the edge of my hearing which I can't make out are so quiet.
Mine did exactly the same, before meds it could mimic anyone perfectly but after he's stuck sounding more or less like me.

It was the same for which channel he could use to talk, let me clarify, the 'channel' I use to think would be called channel A and the channel my voice speaks on in my mind would be channel B, this is how it feels, my voice when speaking is very distinctly not on my channel, he feels separate but before meds it's like he could speak on channel A, my channel, he would have conversations with himself but it felt like it was me conversing with him, I now believe it wasn't me because both sides of the so called dialog was equally extremely fast, I don't think that fast usually and looking back I was saying things I wouldn't usually say either. So before meds not only could he speak at lightning speed but could apparently hijack my channel.

My own personal belief is that 100% of people are voice hearers but their voices choose to speak on channel A and in such a way we can't tell it's really our voices speaking. If they say "I fancy a sandwich" and if we're hungry we believe we just thought "I fancy a sandwich" and go make one, if we're not hungry it's sometimes classed as an intrusive thought. I see many posts here about OCD intrusive thoughts and I think I know where these intrusive thoughts are coming from, sexual, harmful, and obsessive thoughts that people believe are their own because their voices are talking on channel A.

Then there's the issue of voices getting quieter when on meds, well I believe it's because Dopamine is their neurotransmitter, reduce Dopamine and you reduce the volume and speed of their speech because their electrical signals are much weaker without the transmitter, they can't travel as fast or as strong, meds not only turned down the speed and volume of my voice but did the same to the intensity of the pain it could cause me. The higher my dosage the less pain I felt and the quieter and slower my voice became.

So these are more reasons I believe my voice is a part of me, his abilities are dependent on Dopamine. In the summer of 2016 when I last used cannabis which increases Dopamine my voice got incredibly fast and loud and the pain it could cause me was off the charts.
 
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ms_lister

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The question is a false dichotomy. In other words, you are presenting the issue of voices as "Us" or "Them" and additionally assuming that the voices are aggressive.

My experience with voices ranges a whole spectrum. Some times I only hear the voices, other times people in my presence hear them as well. Sometimes I hear what I call 'echo voices', those are things I heard previously which sort of cycle in my perception. Sometimes I experience aggressive voices, sometimes they are just going over what they are going to make for dinner. I had a voice that woke me up on the morning of 9/11 screaming that there was an emergency and until I turned on the TV to the news, I had no idea what it was talking about, then it shut up. Male, females, children, dieties, dead people, telepathy...... what I am trying to say is that the dichotomy you have presented is falsifiable in my experience.
 
GTP

GTP

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The question is a false dichotomy. In other words, you are presenting the issue of voices as "Us" or "Them" and additionally assuming that the voices are aggressive.

My experience with voices ranges a whole spectrum. Some times I only hear the voices, other times people in my presence hear them as well. Sometimes I hear what I call 'echo voices', those are things I heard previously which sort of cycle in my perception. Sometimes I experience aggressive voices, sometimes they are just going over what they are going to make for dinner. I had a voice that woke me up on the morning of 9/11 screaming that there was an emergency and until I turned on the TV to the news, I had no idea what it was talking about, then it shut up. Male, females, children, dieties, dead people, telepathy...... what I am trying to say is that the dichotomy you have presented is falsifiable in my experience.
I see, but I am trying to present the voices as "us versus them" because they might be, according to some versions, not part of ourselves. If they are not part of ourselves they are not ourselves. That's the point. I am using "part" as "part of ourselves" . Something can't be both not part of ourselves and ourselves at the same time.
 
GTP

GTP

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The question is a false dichotomy. In other words, you are presenting the issue of voices as "Us" or "Them" and additionally assuming that the voices are aggressive.

My experience with voices ranges a whole spectrum. Some times I only hear the voices, other times people in my presence hear them as well. Sometimes I hear what I call 'echo voices', those are things I heard previously which sort of cycle in my perception. Sometimes I experience aggressive voices, sometimes they are just going over what they are going to make for dinner. I had a voice that woke me up on the morning of 9/11 screaming that there was an emergency and until I turned on the TV to the news, I had no idea what it was talking about, then it shut up. Male, females, children, dieties, dead people, telepathy...... what I am trying to say is that the dichotomy you have presented is falsifiable in my experience.
It's quite interesting that you've heard that right in the morning during 9/11. I can't really account for it other than "picking it up from the enviroment".
 
GTP

GTP

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The problem with voices is that you can fall into a pretty deep rabbit hole trying to explain their origin. Outer explanation has one set of explanations and Inner explanation has another.
 
GTP

GTP

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NO. They have intentionally obliterated my life. Right after I gave repentance.

That is the truth (my voices say that 15 times a day).

I lost the love of my life and my daughter right after I totally repented. I went insane right after I gave full repentance. They are demons.
I'm sorry you went through this. If you will ever feel comfortable about it, can you please talk about why you say you lost them after you repented? You can PM me if you want.
 
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ms_lister

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It's quite interesting that you've heard that right in the morning during 9/11. I can't really account for it other than "picking it up from the enviroment".
Leading up to that experience I had a deep sense of foreboding leading up, for a couple of years in fact, that dark times were on the way. I went to sleep the night of 9/10 (had never heard a voice up to this point in my life) in the morning I had a dream of two brothers fighting in the desert and then a voice started (in the dream) yelling Emergency! Emergency! over and over and I woke up and the voice was still there. I thought it was some one in the house but it wasn't it was a few feet from my head. I still kept looking for the source of it and could find none. I had the inspiration to turn on the TV to CNN and just in time to see a plane hit the WTC and the voice stopped.

As I stated, I have a range of voices. Some are self generated (the narrator voice when I am reading silently) but my voices are different, other people can hear them sometimes and I can hear theirs sometimes. I once was with a guy that was praying to himself -- I could hear him telepathically and additionally he and I both heard the deity reply to his prayers. I confirmed this with him and it scared the shit out of him and he never wanted to see me again. He was much deeper into the religion than I and he was priest of that religion

Another time I was hearing this voice that was trying to advise me. My 2nd wife was in the room and I asked her to stop what she was doing and just listen. She did and reported hearing the same voice I heard. She was shocked a little scared.

This is the TRUTH.
 
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toto

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I think there are two types of schizophrenia - due to brain damage (after an accident or a tumor / cyst / aneurysm or a temporary enlargement of the ventricles of the brain (uncomplicated hydrocephalus is said to be) and due to insomnia. Voices are part of us - however if a tumor compresses parts of the brain and blocks neurons, brain connections, then they are chaotic.Rather, the bifurcation of personality is about pushing out desires that are used to satisfy a second person.The voices that offend me are self-irony, post-traumatic stress (someone has behaved this way in the past).
 
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