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Anxiety "Shadow" of Intelligence

angry butterfly

angry butterfly

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So what! that level of anxiety is no problem, I should think most on here have a lot more anxiety than that.
 
angry butterfly

angry butterfly

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I'm under a lot of stress atm and my ocd is raging and believe me it's not an aid to my survival, quite the opposite.
Sorry for being short but i'm really struggling and very stressed.
 
Poopy Doll

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I'm sorry you didn't like the post, Angry Butterfly. If it doesn't apply to you, it just doesn't apply to you. I've been noticing people on this bipolar group I'm also a member of, using xanax and other pills for all sorts of life events. Any time they get a little upset, they pop a pill. They refer to themselves as victims of anxiety. And I just don't see this as a good thing. I have personally had High Anxiety completely off the scale from life events and from steroids given for lupus. In the former case, I should have been taught how to deal with my life. In the latter case it was chemical induced and out of control. So I have some experience of anxiety. And I clearly think that depending on pills is the wrong approach. Nothing is learned that way. I also posted this article as I found it interesting.
 
T

TheRedStar

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In fairness, the article's interviewee does state that anxiety is only useful if it, "leads to fruitful action and doesn’t become pathologically overwhelming." I think 'overwhelming' is the perfect word, because in my own personal experience that's exactly how I find the worst anxiety I endure to be... and, far from accomplishing more and performing better, I accomplish nothing because I don't perform at all - I just kind of mentally overload and seize up, and retreat into bed-bound catatonia.

Even when it's not quite that severe, and I'm still able to perform tasks, my capabilities are usually at a reduced performance level, not a 'better' one. I don't date, in large part because of the huge levels of anxiety that trying to do so brings on... I daresay anxiety is hardly evolutionarily adaptive when it puts barriers in the way of me doing my part for the continuation of humanity (not that we're short of people in this world, but still...), although perhaps it could be argued that stopping my flawed genes from being passed on is definitely for the good of the species, if not my own personal self-esteem and happiness :shrug:

Regarding medication, the last therapist I saw was foreign, and she once said to me that she couldn't believe how tight we are in Britain about giving out Valium... she stated that it's fantastic. And she was a good therapist... one who actually seemed to have retained her personal humanity, and who treated me like a human being. Plus she could understand that CBT is a victim-blaming, brainwashing tool, which in and of itself makes her more aware than about 80-90% of mental health professionals in this country (at least when GPs verbally wank over Coercive Brainwashing Therapy they have the valid excuse that mental health isn't their specialty).

Poopy Doll, please believe me when I say that I'm not getting at you when I say this, but every Monday night I struggle to sleep because when I wake up I have to return to work after four days off. The job is only 12hrs per week, it's about as manual and responsibility-free as you can get, and I've been doing it for almost 2 years now in the same shop, so I'm very used to both the task and the workplace... and still I toss and turn in bed every Monday night because I'm scared of the new working 'week' (I use the inverted commas because my 'week' is three days). It's going to be even worse tomorrow, because I had a spat with someone last Thursday and I'm worried that there's going to be some kind of comeback about it when I go back on Tuesday... worrying about that is completely ruining my time off, and generally making me depressed about the fact that even a very part-time menial role can end up dominating - and ruining - my time to myself.

When I add that I'm 38 now, and have been through CBT a number of times (because, clearly, if it doesn't work the first time it's not the therapy that's the problem... you see, in Britain, they all think that CBT is perfect; it's practically a fucking cult in our MH system... and, as with any cult, woe betide any infidels who dare to question the gospel!), what I'm trying to illustrate here is that, in my opinion, if I could be 'taught' how to deal with life then it would have happened by now, and - as unique and special as I'd love to feel - I can't be the only one who, for whatever reason(s), is beyond teaching. So, in such cases, I don't see what's wrong with a bit of sedation in order for a person to have some way of getting a break from almost ceaseless anxiety.
 
BorderlineDownunder

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the WHO recommended treatment (and the DSM) for BPD is therapy and Valium

I too have a problem with valium just because its soooo addictive

but I HAVE to take it. I would take probably 2 a week maybe less.

one script has lasted 6 months

but it is VERY effective for fending off/controlling BPD freakouts. any One of which could easily be fatal so its a nobrainer really.

btw my whole famly is very intelligent and not one of us suffers Anxiety, if anything we are TOO unworried.

I think theres a strong genetic component to Anxiety.
 
Poopy Doll

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Hello, Red Star. I'm sorry you have so much anxiety to deal with. My whole orientation to my life is that everything is a learning lesson. So I feel I haven't learned the lesson when I become so anxious I cannot sleep. I'm sorry Monday, tomorrow, you will be having that same problem you described so well. I have to confess, I haven't learned my lessons. Instead of over coming my fear of the public on my job, I simply quit the job. Never learned not to be terrified of the public. I believe if I had some support I might have learned not to react with high anxiety when customers came.

I also see exactly how my upbringing created this fear. I have no foundation from childhood. I do not believe anxiety is genetic because in my case it is so obviously learned.

But I am quite receptive to other people having different experiences. I'm still arguing that bipolar is NOT genetic; that it is caused by environmental factors like invalidation as a child.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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Hello, Red Star. I'm sorry you have so much anxiety to deal with. My whole orientation to my life is that everything is a learning lesson. So I feel I haven't learned the lesson when I become so anxious I cannot sleep. I'm sorry Monday, tomorrow, you will be having that same problem you described so well. I have to confess, I haven't learned my lessons. Instead of over coming my fear of the public on my job, I simply quit the job. Never learned not to be terrified of the public. I believe if I had some support I might have learned not to react with high anxiety when customers came.

I also see exactly how my upbringing created this fear. I have no foundation from childhood. I do not believe anxiety is genetic because in my case it is so obviously learned.

But I am quite receptive to other people having different experiences. I'm still arguing that bipolar is NOT genetic; that it is caused by environmental factors like invalidation as a child.
poops no one in my fambly were ever dx because they are simply put, Perfect

imagine the Horror when my abusive brother had his own baby girl and she turned out to be exactly like me; carbon copy right down to the BPD except she self harms to ribbons and I don't

then my son confessed to it

its genetic, all right. These kids grew up in different countries, me and my brother were both good loving non abusive parents.

in our case, its NOT learnt

nor is the UnderAnxiety. My dad was the exact same, a real grasshopper fiddling in the sunshine amongst a family of worker ants.
 
angry butterfly

angry butterfly

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Sorry for sounding off poopydoll, anxiety is my worse thing and atm it's getting the better of me, and yes it did say in the artical "if the anxiety was'nt pathologically overwhelming".
 
T

TheRedStar

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I know it seems to be a very contentious point on here, but I do personally believe there to be a 'physical' - i.e. neurological - component to anxiety... and, indeed, the other mental illnesses mentioned here (BPD, bipolar disorder). Basically, I subscribe to the diathesis-stress model, whereby a certain susceptibility to mental health problems can be inherited, with environmental factors during a person's life (particularly childhood, when the brain is still physically growing and 'wiring itself up') deciding whether this predisposition gets 'activated' or not.

Returning to what I wrote about believing that mental illness shows itself in the brain's functioning, at a very crude level we've known for decades that damage to the brain causes damage to the person - ergo the physical affects the mental - and on top of that we've also unequivocally learned that the nature of change depends upon whereabouts in the brain that damage has occurred. As far as I know this is universally accepted, and so I don't think it's any great stretch of the imagination to believe that more subtle differences in brain functioning - i.e. resulting from faulty wiring rather than actual damage - can lead to more subtle personality deviations from the 'norm'.

If you believe in neuroscience - as I personally do - we are starting to see the differences between healthy brains and mentally ill ones... bits of the brain that don't activate properly, bits that don't activate at all when they should (as in this article, written just several months ago, which claims that people with BPD can't activate areas of the brain which 'healthy' people use to regulate emotion... so take that and shove it up your arse, smart-arses who think that BPD 'doesn't exist'), and - conversely - parts which activate too powerfully.

Returning to the specific context of anxiety, only yesterday I read Robin Williams's widow's account of the actor's last few months, which - amongst other things - featured high levels of discomfort, fear, and anxiety. After his death, doctors discovered high levels of destructive 'Lewy bodies' in his amygdala... a part of the 'lower', 'old' brain which is heavily connected with instinctive emotional responses. This isn't to say that I think everyone with pathological anxiety has a form of dementia eating away at their limbic system... what I am saying though is that maybe some of us have an amygdala (and associated limbic areas) which is too powerful or too easily activated, and/or a neocortex (the 'upper' brain, relating to rationality, self-control, consciousness, intellect, etc.) which isn't powerful enough to dampen the reactive part of itself?
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

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I know it seems to be a very contentious point on here, but I do personally believe there to be a 'physical' - i.e. neurological - component to anxiety... and, indeed, the other mental illnesses mentioned here (BPD, bipolar disorder). Basically, I subscribe to the diathesis-stress model, whereby a certain susceptibility to mental health problems can be inherited, with environmental factors during a person's life (particularly childhood, when the brain is still physically growing and 'wiring itself up') deciding whether this predisposition gets 'activated' or not.
Certainly there is a biology to mental/emotional health difficulties. Just as there is a sociology, psychology & spirituality (imo).

In truth we don't know the weightings, despite the current focus on the biomedical/materialism.

We don't know etiologies. We don't know what physiological processes are involved.

Yes there probably are biological predispositions/variables to mental illness, just as there are environmental/psychological variables to brain/physiological function. Hence the general consensus of the biological/psychological/sociological model.
 
Poopy Doll

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Very interesting post, RedStar !! I assume people's brains get altered over time and aren't always born that way. I had a therapist who always said the anxiety comes from what you are thinking. Some of my anxiety is from what I'm thinking. Some comes from early childhood programming which is harder to access. When I was being given steroids, I had severe anxiety. So my experiences don't inform me that the anxiety is from my brain functions. That Robin Williams had such a sudden onset of debilitating anxiety shows that what you are saying is true for some people. This makes it hard on the therapists I imagine, who are dealing with people of both type. It isn't sensible to think anxiety only has one cause.
 
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