Antidepressants are not ‘happy pills’

NicoretteGummed

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#41
I think there's a bit of envy going on here.

I'm on venlafaxine and it works for me whereas every other antidepressant has not.

OK perhaps it doesn't perform the miracle of making me into a functional human being.

But it certainly gives me a half life.

Without it I would probably be homeless by now or//and consuming several cans of lager a day to stave off the depression.
 
Toasted Crumpet

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#42
I think there's a bit of envy going on here.

I'm on venlafaxine and it works for me whereas every other antidepressant has not.

OK perhaps it doesn't perform the miracle of making me into a functional human being.

But it certainly gives me a half life.

Without it I would probably be homeless by now or//and consuming several cans of lager a day to stave off the depression.
Envy???

Hmm, dunno. Suppose it would be nice to take a pill to kill the illness. x
 
NicoretteGummed

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#43
It doesn't kill it off though I'm sure that there are some people who have been miraculously cured by anti-depressants and others.

But i'm sure for most people who are helped by such meds it alleviates the pain and makes it more manageable.
 
NicoretteGummed

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#44
The drugs wouldn't carry the warnings they do if it was all that wishy washy. It's a well established fact that in certain people psychiatric drugs cause suicidal & homicidal behaviour.

There will always be a small proportion in every type of society who eventually succumb to suicide whether it's an industrialised society or something perhaps more "Primitive"
 
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#45
Venlafaxine withdrawal is like nothing else I've ever experienced... brain zaps, headaches, nightmares, anxiety, hyper-sensitivity and emotionality; I feel like everything the drug takes away from me rushes back (and bear in mind it's stuff I struggle to handle), and with such speed and power that it's just too much. I get quite 'high', but it's very fragile and erratic... just a horrible experience.

I'm actually scared of coming off of it, and one of my friends is adamant that I'm psychologically addicted to the stuff, but I don't worry about that as to be honest I think I'll always need to be on it. The stuff does balance me out somewhat, smoothes off the roughest spikes of emotion, gives me a little more control over my temper and instinctive responses, soothes my awkward sexual desires... I would be a real handful without it. Sh*t... I might not even be here without it.

But at the same time there are people I know - with depression - who I wouldn't want anywhere near the stuff... several doctors have said to me that it's the last SSRI/SNRI drug they try on someone, their 'if all else fails' option, and I completely understand why. Even by the standards of psychiatric medication it is a very blunt tool... sometimes I'm concerned about how my body can tolerate it, in all honesty.

My basic point is that, as I think I've made clear already, I do believe that antidepressants have their place. However... I also believe that they are handed out too quickly and too easily, that many professionals have far too much faith in their efficacy, and that their side-effects - in terms of both incidence levels and strength of effect - are underplayed.
 
SomersetScorpio

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#46
Venlafaxine withdrawal is like nothing else I've ever experienced...
Venlafaxine itself is like nothing i've ever experienced. I had one of the worst (if not the worst) ever episode on it. It's a full on drug.

Luckily the citalopram helps me somewhat, though a "happy pill" it isn't. x
 
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#48
I thought the last resort pill was Optimax (tryptophan), as even though it's meant to be a harmless amino acid there was a contaminated batch some years back that caused deaths and serious illness (EMS). It used to be available in the UK but only from a psychiatrist. They've stopped making it now, probably because it wasn't making them money.

I tried some off the internet, and although it helped reduce my carb cravings slightly it didn't do owt for my depression and I had to come off it as it made me really woozy, nauseus etc and I couldn't get through my daily routine on it.

I've tried lots of other "natural" things that are meant to help like St John's Wort and Sam-E and the effect was minimal at best.

I don't know if this means I don't have depression, or that I need strong pills, or that my depression is psychological.

If there were a pill with no side effects, I'd take it, just like I take my antihistamine. Especially as it seems there is no social/psychological help available that is effective, at least not on the NHS.

But I won't take antidepressants with all these dodgy side effects and withdrawal effects.

There was an article in the Guardian recently about the link between SSRIS and PGAD, that was a bit scary.
 
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#49
I guess essentially it's Horses for Courses isn't it???
i think that this is where the main issues come in. Are people getting a fully informed choice, their free will fully respected, honoured & offered a genuine range of options/alternatives?

Fair enough for people that agree with biomedical psychiatry & drugs & the way the system is, & feel helped by it all, & no one is making any issues of that, if that is what people feel they have been genuinely helped by (leaving aside if it all was/is genuinely the best thing for them). If people want to drug themselves for life, to cope, then go ahead - The issue that people do raise is when that isn't what they agree with, or are satisfied with, &/or they feel very damaged from it, & saw/wanted different options, & have been bullied, coerced, pressured, lied to, & forced onto these drugs & not been given, nor offered alternatives (which very much exist & could be implemented). The people that agree with all the labelling & drugging all seem to say, well that doesn't matter because it helped me - That strikes me as quite selfish & invalidating of all the people (& there are plenty of them) that haven't had good experiences with it all, or who want to frame & address things differently from a pathology, labels & drugs.

i honestly wonder if some people can comprehend this fact?

It's an issue with society/psychiatry that isn't ever going to go away either - not until it is genuinely addressed & resolved.
 
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#50
I agree with the person who said that they think psychiatrists downplay the risks of meds. I personally wish I hadn't ever touched them.

I find it annoying as well when you speak out against psychiatric medication that some people seem to take it as saying that mental illness isn't real illness. I was reading a forum where people were saying how they cope with depression and people were saying they avoided meds after side effects and people were saying but do you take a nurofen when you have a headache, would you take insulin if you were diabetic etc... Annoying. I think meds must work for some people but I don't think people should blindly take them just because your psych is so eager to hand you a slip for them.

My main point was that anti-depressants certainly didn't make me feel happy or even better and in one case made me feel suicidal and I ended up nearly dying.
 
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#51
I find it annoying as well when you speak out against psychiatric medication that some people seem to take it as saying that mental illness isn't real illness.
i know - it's seen as a personal attack if you are critical of or question the biomedical view/system of pathology, label & drug. But i suppose that is what a lot of people have/do invest their primary identity in.

To my understanding madness is a very real thing, everything that people experience is, peoples lives & experiences & everything that entails is real & valid. To my rational thinking, that then doesn't mean that the biomedical psychiatric view is necessarily the correct one? (& it's certainly Not based on any evidence, there is far more evidence for some of the alternative views) - & many psychiatrists freely admit they don't know what is really going on with any of it.

Personally i find the view that madness is a biomedical/physical illness, best treated with a label & drugs, is very deeply invalidating & trivialising - How is that acknowledging peoples lives & experiences as meaningful & real? Which is after all what we're talking about.

i don't understand the reasoning around it all that a lot of people have? To me it doesn't make sense - other than conforming to the current social/cultural mainstream/orthodox biomedical psychiatric/big pharma/Mass Media Authority/Propaganda/view (A Cathedral of Lies imo). To me they are Not the authority on it all, most of them are clueless, & it's just a job role & way of earning money (in most cases), & to enforce & perpetuate the dominant materialist paradigm & social 'norms'.

The truth of that - & i find it very hard to see how people can't see that is the truth of it all - is maybe so terrifying & unacceptable to some people, & the alternatives of not agreeing with it all too difficult, that they would far rather be in total denial of it all?

The entire thing is in many ways a Mass Shared Delusion - A Collective shared psychosis & Collective Projection, & the Emperor really isn't wearing any clothes. Despite the facts that it involves very real implications for many millions of lives - You have to laugh at the sheer lunacy of it all, it's all totally potty, it's like the script of a bad Disney cartoon playing out on endless repeat.
 
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firemonkee57

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#52
The people that agree with all the labelling & drugging all seem to say, well that doesn't matter because it helped me - That strikes me as quite selfish & invalidating of all the people (& there are plenty of them) that haven't had good experiences with it all, or who want to frame & address things differently from a pathology, labels & drugs.
There are also those who are selfish because they want medication and psychiatry stopped even though some have been helped by them. It works both ways.
I fully agree there should be more choice and more respect for people's choices . I also agree that people should be informed about medications . However this could be done without the hype from both the anti and pro caps which necessitates the spreading of inaccurate information. The distressed/patients/service users deserve better than that.
Unfortunately you are never going to get a system of care that pleases everyone but the aim should be to work towards one that incorporates and respects people's choices as much as possible.
 
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#53
There are also those who are selfish because they want medication and psychiatry stopped even though some have been helped by them.
Surely you see the reasons for that though? In relation to all the forced treatment, & abuse that goes on - it does need to be stopped, at those levels.

There's a lot of selfishness in this World.

I fully agree there should be more choice and more respect for people's choices . I also agree that people should be informed about medications . However this could be done without the hype from both the anti and pro caps which necessitates the spreading of inaccurate information. The distressed/patients/service users deserve better than that.
Whose deciding what's accurate or not? You? Pharma companies? Biomedical psychiatry? The Government? MH Charities? You see the problem?

Unfortunately you are never going to get a system of care that pleases everyone but the aim should be to work towards one that incorporates and respects people's choices as much as possible.
The fundamental question is who is working genuinely towards all that? & in whose opinion?
 
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#54
Ideally no medication should result in a death be it a psych med or not. However such a perfect medication is hard to find . 50000 is 50000 too many but what if by stopping antidepressants 150000 die that wouldn't have?
50,000 EXTRA suicides. That means over and above if they were not used.

So, to clarify, if prozac hadn't been used, and those people had been drug free, statistically we would expect there would have been 50,000 LESS suicides among that group of people.
 
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#55
Whose deciding what's accurate or not? You? Pharma companies? Biomedical psychiatry? The Government? MH Charities? You see the problem?
Preferably independent researchers that are not affiliated with the pharmaceutical companies with the remit to publish all findings, not just the positive ones.
 
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#57
Preferably independent researchers that are not affiliated with the pharmaceutical companies with the remit to publish all findings, not just the positive ones.
When this happens you consider it anti psychiatry "hype" ...

Like when I post the data from the WHO (World Health Organisation) which shows that antipsychotics increase the likelihood that someone labelled with "Schizophrenia" will become chronically ill. They were so astounded by the data they re-did the study and found the same thing. Haven't noticed that shift your position.

Or when I show data from the clinical trials conducted by the manufacturers of the drugs themselves (i.e. PRO DRUG HYPE) that shows the drugs increase the suicide rate. They are as independent from anti psychiatry as you can get lol. When it shows that compared to not giving them people they increase the suicide rate you respond with "yes, but what if we didn't give drugs to people maybe it would increase" :confused:

Essentially anything which doesn't distort itself in its eagerness to nail itself to the fence is anti drug hype to you ... yet that data doesn't in the main come from anti psychiatry sources ... in fact the vast majority of data (rather than opinions) I post doesn't. A lot comes from pro drug psychiatrists and from the companies themselves who find stuff they wish they hadn't and then try to hide or obscure it. Me posting something doesn't make the source of the data biased towards trying to produce data which backs me up ... much was biased in production towards showing the drug in as good a light as possible (e.g. clinical drug trials).
 
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#58
But it seems to be that the anti- anti depressant people are much louder that the people that support them, so if someone was drug naïve then they would be getting a very biased view.
So the political and cultural might of Big Pharma, Psychiatry, and the overarching message that if you are distressed you must take drugs is something you appear not to have a problem with.

Yet a few posts by people in an obscure forum thread provide a loudness of message you think would distort the message someone would receive so much that you feel that the bias they would observe causes a problem?

People with a problem around the anti psychiatry and anti drug messages people receive being too loud would do well to develop an understanding of the wider political and cultural context they occur in imo.
 
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#59
So the political and cultural might of Big Pharma, Psychiatry, and the overarching message that if you are distressed you must take drugs is something you appear not to have a problem with.

Yet a few posts by people in an obscure forum thread provide a loudness of message you think would distort the message someone would receive so much that you feel that the bias they would observe causes a problem?

People with a problem around the anti psychiatry and anti drug messages people receive being too loud would do well to develop an understanding of the wider political and cultural context they occur in imo.
imo i have a perfectly adequate understanding, thank you for your concern though. :)
 
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#60
So the political and cultural might of Big Pharma, Psychiatry, and the overarching message that if you are distressed you must take drugs is something you appear not to have a problem with.

Yet a few posts by people in an obscure forum thread provide a loudness of message you think would distort the message someone would receive so much that you feel that the bias they would observe causes a problem?

People with a problem around the anti psychiatry and anti drug messages people receive being too loud would do well to develop an understanding of the wider political and cultural context they occur in imo.
It would be good if some of this anti-pyschiarty anti med stuff was backed up with some other methods that actually were available, accessible and showed to work? Where are they?

Not many people swallows meds willingly without their own doubts, totally compliant. Most will do and or have and or done their own research on or had tried independently, or, in conjunction some alternative methods? This anti med thing, What is the utopia that is med free?

A happy clappy touchy feely where everyone has access to loads of touchy feely happy shiny whatists and groups, who will allieviate severe pain and big distress? Ever noticed how when distressed no one wants to know, hence the p.doc and his bag of pills?

No one is saying that unhappiness or distress are not normal, of course it is, its not a requisite to be happy all the time, and who would want to be? Actually like people when they are miserable, the truth tends to come out then. When distress and or 'unhappiness', becomes a problem, is when it is impacting on people's ability to live their lives in a way that creates meaning to them. And for a time frame long enough that sometimes lives are floundering badly, for lot's of differing reasons people and doctors resort to medication?

Remember people are born into the world, and they have to adapt to that world, the world sadly does not adapt to the individual, and often the people for a myriad of reasons don't like what is presented to them? And that is just tough, Its just, 'go get a job and pay the rent', and for a lot of people that just does not resonate, yes that is a very simplistic analogy, to demonstrate.


Where is the data and who writes this data, be good to see the data that says more people die on meds than not, again where is the background here? Its good to aim to be medication less ultimately, but that can take time, and for people reading all 'med free' 'med free', I would ask what it is they are aiming for? Some of us have to take meds for a plethora of reasons, if anyone has a brilliant antidote for me not post it. Oh and if its on offer in outer mongolia, ain't really got the fare, better if its two for one down S**** ****

katss
 
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