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Anti- psychotic medication leads to an early grave?

S

schizolanza

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Is there any evidence that taking medication for schizophrenia will shorten your life?
 
keepsafe

keepsafe

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Hey Olanza,

I do believe you will get varied answers on here which is what you are looking for I guess. My psych wouldn;t admit to it thats for sure and I really hope not seen as I take them, but I have read threads that quote otherwise on the forum, not quite sure where they are now.

KS
 
S

snnny

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I dont know if this is factually true but in the BNF british national formulary Th e book where all medications are listed Qite a few anti-psychotic drugs come with warning like long term use can lead to heart problem, or more vulnerable to liver problems or diabetes, however its the doctor's job to ensure the dosage is safe and appropite to manage the symptoms -it is a balencing act between long term effects and preventing relapse.
Personally I used to work in a daycentre and I have had several friends people I used to support die in the last two years and it has made me cynical about the long term use of medication -but maybe their deaths had to do more with alcohol and tobacco -i dont know I just feel guilty because I wasnt around. I have bipolar but I only ask for meds when I feel Im becoming unwell over the last few years i had a relapse plan done with a student psychologist, and this gives me a greater sense of control-I just hope my friends are in a better place right now.
 
M

maudikie

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There are many people who have an early death. Is death to be feared? How many are killed on the roads, compared to people on medication for schizophrenia? How many soldiers are killed at an early age in war?
Have faith and hope my friend.
 
I

IntrospectionFtw!

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This is what im worried about, i think it's best to take the drug with the least amount of side affects like weight gain sedation heart arythmiers and maybe give up smoking and exercise then it's not so much of a problem the problem is these pills are the only thing that works and if you dont take a high enough dosage you wont get a good antipsychotic effect i think amisulpride and abilify are the safest to take long term.
 
I

IntrospectionFtw!

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R

rasselas

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Long term use of antipsychotics will lead statistically (that's in the population taking them longterm) to a reduction in lifespan of 25-30 years (when compared against the population of people not taking antipsychotics - or possibly not taking them longterm - there is controversy here about what is longterm, it could be 3 months, it could be 1, 2, 3, 5, 10 years - no one can be entirely sure). However, we are not a general population, we are individuals, so when you look at individuals you will always find exceptions to a general population statistic. It's an argument you often hear in support of smoking cigarettes. "I know someone who smoked ciggies all his life and lived to see 95." However, if you put him in the population of longterm smokers, his exceptional luck would disappear amongst all the early deaths and barely register at all.

It has long been known that across the population of longterm antipsychotic users, lifespan is reduced by 25-30 years, on average.

There are of course complicating factors. People using longterm antipsychotics are also more likely to live in isolation for long periods without social contact (which shortens lifespan); will very often abuse alcohol and other drugs too (which shortens lifespan); will eat badly and not exercise regularly (which shortens lifespan); and not engage themselves generally in intellectual pursuits (which increases risks of dementia shortening lifespan).

So does this mean that the 25-30 years statistic is controversial and to be sniffed at?

It depends on how much weight you put into the longterm effects of antipsychotics conducted on controlled experimental mammals such as rats and rhesus monkeys that are able to avoid many of the other causative factors that are known to reduce lifespan - such as those I've listed above.

And before you say: a caged rat or rhesus monkey living in a lab environment is likely to have decreased longevity, don't - because even in a cage a monkey or a rat will live longer than their wild and free comrades because of the lack of stress, exposure to predators, disease and a good diet and so on.

There still remains the doubt you may have that a rhesus monkey or a rat's brains are so different to a humans that it's not fair to extrapolate the longterm effects of say Abilify or Quietapine on these little brains onto the effects on the human brain.

Functionally, there isn't much basis to such an objection.

But, if you stick to that objection you are then leading yourself to a troubling paradox. Which is this. If you reject the studies that indicate a 25-30 year reduction in lifespan caused by longterm antipsychotic use based on population studies of humans (taking them) versus humans (that do not), then fair enough - to a degree. Humans don't live in highly controlled lab-like conditions.

BUT if you also reject the evidence from the population studies of rats and monkeys you are suddenly right up the old smelly creek.

Why?

Because much of the underlying science that justifies the utility of antipsychotics is based on the studies of them on rat and monkey brains.

You can't have your cake and eat it. At least not in population studies...

:)
 
R

rasselas

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as an attempt to positively follow-up on my own doomy post, here's a few pointers to what you can do to possibly decrease the likelihood of antipsychoticssignificantly reducing your lifespan:

(1) try and negotiate your dose down to thelowest manageablelevel for you (about 40% of people in the UK on antipsychotics are taking doses above the recommended levels)

(2) eat well; studies are inconclsive but the benefits of oily fish/omega 3 are very promising

(3) exercise often

(4) try to socialise as much as you can, and try to take part in things that stimulate your mind

(5) consider accessing some form of therapy, either individual, group or peer support based - this may help you with (1)

(6) get a pet - pets reduce stress, less stress again means more chance of (1) and dogs particularly help you get out and about and will increase your confidence

(7) consider long-term goals; don't write yourself off; believe that there may be a future for you without drugs, and explore ways of achieving that

(8) if you're using other drugs heavily such as alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, sugar, chocolate, cocaine etc - seriously consider addressing those issues


:)
 
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IntrospectionFtw!

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I think the lack of socialising and mental stimulation is catching up with me i feel like im going senile which is not good. i've been prescribed mirtazapine im gonna try going onto that and see if the antidepressant and anxiloytic properties allow me to come off the neuroleptics.
 
BillFish

BillFish

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If you read the wikipedia page for your meds it will have you running for cover.I read the wiki page for resperidone again the other day.It has a long list of side effects and particularly the risk of a tumour. Lovely stuff.

Its either take the risk or go mad for me though.I'm yet to be convinced you can think your way out of schizophrenia by reading and discussing jung.:drool:
 
I

IntrospectionFtw!

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Yeah i never seemed to be that concerned about the side effects in the past i was always looking for the best neuroleptic or antidepressant to take. but since i started suffering from memory loss and tardive dykisnsea i've changed. his mitazpine drug has some dangerous side affects aswell several people have just dropped dead from taking it plus it can actually cause hallucinations but i think im gonna have to risk taking it because the negative symptoms are really killing me im just zonked out on 5mg of olanzapine and i just dont seem to see the point in doing anything other staring off into the void. as for that jung shiz i dont know if it works or not i've tryed staying off the medications and working through the maddness making sense of it but i always end going off on a never ending tangent starts off well my brain starts thinking again and my mood is lifted but after awhile i relapse and end up back on them.
 
T

terri

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hello there

so here i am with loads of experience and so no tablets. don't you realise that psychosis is so more like a mirarge when you brain is overloaded and can be quite simply cured by going down to the gym and doing some exercise, to get rid of the excess adrenelin and also for sure, you do not need to take those tablets. Not unless you have been specifically asked to by a GP who has your best interests at heart. And to be quite brutal here, I know full well that those GPs do not have your best interest at heart because:-

(a) the do know that for every prescription they write they get a 'kickback' or should I say, a pay off;
(b) they do not have the correct interest, text books and time to go study what they call mental illness to the best of their ability, for they are far too tired, and only give you a good look at your eyes, and ask a few questions, you know like, are you seeing things you should not, are you hearing things you cannot tell me about, are you sleeping properly, are you eating the right food stuffs and all sorts of foolishness is written on your notes because of.

I know you don't believe that, but hey I have come through much and have experienced many of life's troubles and still I am sitting here now, wondering how the hell I am going to get through to some of you that what you need to do is so use a strong willpower, go on your knees and pray to God, get yourself off out of your home away from your computer, do something mind boggling, like express yourself, and see where you get.....

right right back, for those prescriptions are so life long, and the moment that Schit goes on your medical records, you are a leper you are, and so no one worse for leprocy than here then, and so I know a man, who was wheeled into the mental hospital one day, while I was there, working as a nurse, and worrying for the ward, and so what happened is... the guy was totally paralyzed, had sours all over his faced, hands, and being eapen alive you see, and he had the nerve to throw a look at those supposed docotors who put him there, and so what he does is....

beg for that drink there in front of him he could not reach with those eyes, and smile with those eyes when I sat and talked to him and spoke no words for a deaf mute also, and always for the traffic problems now, and how many of you out there realise, that the carbon emissions are so no more other than over seas and over here and causing our trees to die, our seasons to collapse, our homes to be demolished by the storms they sall created, and also for sure for the very existence of human beings.

Now go there and think about someone other than yourselves for once, and do so now, and what I mean is (and I do so not want to cause you any offensive, and just a sorta time bomb waiting to explode I suppose, for now I know you all do so and that includes my friends from the past, all one of them) that we are here now, on this planet, I am sitting with sall our windows open, the heat is so far so too much, the cars are racing up and down the road, the noise is horrendous, the smells are excruciatingly vile, the wind pipe is sort of blocked up with smut, the lungs are getting congested, and all for what.....

the greed of mammoth man and so not only that and I oh have to tell you a little story now. And a sorrowful one at that.

There was a man called Sailor
Who was in the naval services you know
He did drim too much and smoked too
and now do not shoo for a few home truths I do so have to doh tell you.

So now don't report and don't delete and don't let off on one over me, for I am sick to death of having my whole persona and points of view destroyed by someone who has the awesome abilities to so take offence at every single thing I do.

And so now to continue the story. I have dust been away through Scotland and there I met a man who had a maid who was an aristocrat and so what he is now is a mute, and so not deaf either, and so what he does not take are those tablets. And what he did was contract cancer, and so on and off for 19 years now. And now you winge about what...... you havent got a job, you havent got ...... oh god help me, for I am sort of running out of steam for what I am saying is. Why not think how lucky you was, to be born how you were, to be brought up with lots of food in your belly, growing up with socks and shoes on your feet, and a car and or a taxi or a bus to go travel around in, and parents who so love you, or not as whenever the case may be, and sorta i was bought up from after the war, when men and women and children had really truly suffered, and what they did was, put their children first, and themselves last, sort of, in many cases, and in some they did so not, and so those children from parents who put themselves first and their children last, in the old maxim children should be seen and not heard, so what I am saying is...... they survived and they worked hard and they got on with it, and all fears they sorted out through their minds, all occasions that were for happy they stored in their memory box, all awful evil thoughts about all wrong doing against them, they worked through and sorted out, and all people go there and grow old and sort of put all doubts aside and go fret for no one and the one's who had the most courage go topside and those who are not courageous at all go.......

oh whim a whim a way whim away and sorta gone off through song now for it is all so so sobviously clear to me and many others of those over six o that the people who followed are so mardy it is so untrue sort o and so out of touch with realism and so do not know how to wash a pot even, or as I was pointed out to someone who has a habit as I do of putting my arms around myself for comfort during some sort of stormy sweather as our dad said good row clears the air and most of our rows at home were during the thunderstorm weathers and sort o when the rains had a fallen and the drunks had got out of the piffs and the men had wet their whistle through their tashes and their mines were closing much were hip hip hip and so not hip hip hooray and so now you so know it, one step at a time, and one thought now.

Where the hell have you come from for Cal vin not half clyne has dust landed on my knee and as I was saying there was a man called ford who had not a big sorta hord, so nop for nothing and so now you gotta know that he was suffering horribly without his words of mouth and could not express himself and could neither laugh nor cough and that food came up out of the hole in his neck and so I did sat there and did a wonder and so basically all I have got to say is now....

HOW COULD YOU
 
T

terri

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sip n winge and wallow when you get paid by the state, and or work anyhows, get yourself a rather good nice computer, paid for by ummmm, buy those cigarettes, and so you are not short of money now, and how could you expect us here to spend time taking time out from our lives to sort out your dumb dumb brains and how could you experience relief at the pleasures of those anxiety attacks caused by your loss of orgasms and how could you know nothing and be so brain dead that I would rather lose my plot here now than go there once again, and how could you do that, and book that taxi and expect your kids to go listen to what you do when you screw up their lives as well, and so how could you live off our hard tax paying money and how could you be all so ungrateful and how could you not thank me now for the kick up the bum and so what you all do now is kick me in the teeth for telling you some home truths and so that goes for you also Calpepper and so now I do so know who you are and sieree and so on and Ka Serra and so whatever will be will be and how could you expect me to waip awound for 669 and Sapen you are and so don't expect me to leave im for u nor im for me and me for in and for us for out or in and so on and for sore it tall was for when you said that I thought.....

hold on a mo......

hol on he is a man of experience so......

hol on a bit longer for this one......

and so no apostrophe there and no how could you...

and just a mo now and just a little time now and just a tadge more experience and just a flash of fear there and just a.......

so do nop expect no suicide from no one neither for nop from me so whap about her then, the one who ran away now, and what about here then and so not a slop of boffer and so nop a slop of there neither and so how could you, do that there then, and so how have you done that there then, and so why did you come that way and so why did you not tell me that there and why did you go there then and don't you nop nop realise for true that I am zhiere there and zoo one there and zoo two and four and five and nine and sixty five and dont you have any idea of your insane sentence of what you are doing and are doing and are doing looking over my shoulder now and yes i do see you and have done for so so long times...................:tea::cry:
 
ally41

ally41

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Have you read 'Sanity, madness and the family' by R.D.Laing? I found it to be a really interesting and enlightening perspective on the causes of schizophrenia. I'm open to the possibility that it could be cured by therapy in the long term and was shocked when I realised that this book was written in the early 60's. Shame that modern day practices seem to ignore this possibility and rely solely on medications and the bio-medical causes model.
 

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