Am I a pervert?

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SometimesWeirdo

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#1
Hello everyone!

What I'm going to write may sound very creepy and weird and I'm very ashamed of it. But it's really bothering me. I don't know if this post rather belongs to other topics, but since I suffer from GAD and this might be a symptom of it, I posted it here.

I'm male, 25 years old and I'm from Germany. For a very long time I've suffered from anxiety to be gay or bisexual. After all these years I'm slowly admitting to myself that I have bisexual tendencies and that there's nothing bad about it.
I also suffer from GAD. I've had anxiety disorders for half of my life. In a few weeks I'm going to a mental health hospital because of that. But I'm really scared right now.

It all started when I began looking for the right clinic for me. And here comes the weird part: It was very important to me if the specialized hospitals that I looked up had a sauna. Seven years ago I was in a mental health hospital that had a sauna. During that time I was very afraid to visit a locker room or any places where you're around other naked men as I was afraid I could get aroused by that (since I was afraid I could be gay). In the clinic I sorta confronted myself and visited the sauna. And for me it worked very well. I wasn't aroused by those nude men, it was rather normal for me. I really enjoyed being in the sauna, and having the proof that I don't get aroused when I'm around naked men (which might also have been a proof I wasn't gay). But after that time my fear of being gay didn't disappear, it came back every now and then.
I now chose a hospital that doesn't have a sauna. Of course, there are more important things in a mental health hospital than a sauna, and that special hospital has a treatment concept that convinced me most compared to other hospitals. But every now and then I catch myself feeling a little sad that the hospital doesn't have a sauna. And then I think about other opportunities where I could see other male patients naked (e.g., I share the bedroom with other patients). Those thoughts really creep me out. Why is it important to me to see other men naked? Am I a pervert? What is my real motivation? Do I just need the proof again that it's nothing special seeing naked men like I had in the past or do I just want to see other men naked because I'm a creepy voyeur?
I know today that I for sure am bisexual and I slowly try to accept myself. I still struggle with it unfortunately. My "gay parts" of my sexuality always had that kind of curiosity for other men's bodies. Like, I've often been interested in knowing how attractive men look like naked. Not always sexually, but more out of curiosity and in order to compare myself. I really want to know why I have those thoughts. I don't want to be a pervert who can't control himself.
I'm really scared of going to the hospital now. I have to share my bedroom with another patient and I'm afraid of being close to him. I'm also afraid there could be temptations where I could see other men naked and I would totally make us of them because I can't control myself.


So yeah, this is my weird story. I often think, who else has those strange problems?
 
calypso

calypso

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#2
I don't see anything perverted in this. You are struggling with your sexuality and I suspect that many people in your position feel the same way. Are there any organisations in Germany like we have here in Britain, for people to ring up a switchboard of gay people who can help you work through your feelings? IN Britain its the
Home : Switchboard which might be of help.
 
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harsh-reality

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#3
You don't say if you been lucky enough to get close to any man or woman. it sounds like its more the fear of being judged and if you are potentially gay then you fear being ridiculed it seems - if there is someone in your life that does that are they a good person to hang around with - most people unjudgemental about this kind stuff these days.

But yes you also no mention if you feel aroused or attracted to women either - its not mentioned - but whether you gay. straight or bi sexual whichever it is - it seems from how you write you fear being judged... Most people very accepting these days in general I feel.

Well it is in Uk I feel. Maybe its more difficult in Germany perhaps.

Who you attracted to is in built so whatever floats your boat is absolutely fine - I don't understand the concept of a sauna in a mental health hospital though - obviously you struggling if you going into hospital - but why not just attend a public sauna suite, when you well.

People normally not normally naked in public saunas anyhow.

You not a pervert though - it all sounds normal exploration of who you are..
 
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SometimesWeirdo

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#4
I don't see anything perverted in this. You are struggling with your sexuality and I suspect that many people in your position feel the same way. Are there any organisations in Germany like we have here in Britain, for people to ring up a switchboard of gay people who can help you work through your feelings? IN Britain its the
Home : Switchboard which might be of help.
Thank you for your answer!
Yes, there are many organizations in Germany. I'm thinking about consulting sexual counselling soon. They could help me explore my sexuality.
 
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SometimesWeirdo

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#5
You don't say if you been lucky enough to get close to any man or woman. it sounds like its more the fear of being judged and if you are potentially gay then you fear being ridiculed it seems - if there is someone in your life that does that are they a good person to hang around with - most people unjudgemental about this kind stuff these days.

But yes you also no mention if you feel aroused or attracted to women either - its not mentioned - but whether you gay. straight or bi sexual whichever it is - it seems from how you write you fear being judged... Most people very accepting these days in general I feel.

Well it is in Uk I feel. Maybe its more difficult in Germany perhaps.

Who you attracted to is in built so whatever floats your boat is absolutely fine - I don't understand the concept of a sauna in a mental health hospital though - obviously you struggling if you going into hospital - but why not just attend a public sauna suite, when you well.

People normally not normally naked in public saunas anyhow.

You not a pervert though - it all sounds normal exploration of who you are..
Thank you for your answer!

I get aroused by women too. Sometimes more, sometimes less. The same with men. It's really complex.

In Germany homosexuality and bisexuality are quite accepted. Of course there are still some people who think it's a disease, but they become less and less.

A lot of mental health hospitals (especially the more modern ones) have a spa department because it helps people relax. Saunas are really good for stress relief. In Germany as in Scandinavia it's common to be naked in a public sauna due to hygienic reasons. Even if men and women are mixed.
 
Bizzarebitrary

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#6
Hello and thank you for being open and candid about your concern. As others mentioned, arousal is a mechanism not a decision and you've nothing to be ashamed of. I've not had to deal with it in a hospital but I had the same fears when I visited a clothing optional spa. I wanted control of myself like anyone else. Yet shaming myself for something out of my control is not a coping strategy.

If it will help, consider that if anyone even notices your arousal it would be rather conceited for him or her to believe they are the cause of it. Nobody can hear your thoughts or know what you feel by looking at you. Even if that person is alone with you, it is conceivable you are thinking of someone else entirely.
 
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SometimesWeirdo

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#7
Yes, a couple of years ago it really was the fear of getting aroused. But later it became more of mental checking. Like I really wanted it to be normal for me to see other guys naked. When I went to the gym locker room, I wanted it to be nothing special. I thought if I had multiple opportunities to be around naked men I would get used to it and then I would be like somebody else who doesn't care about such things. Since I avoided those places before and didn't feel normal because I was afraid of even doing sports because that would mean using the locker room.
The thing is, I've often been curious in seeing attractive guys naked. That may be part of my bisexuality. But on the other hand I always fought against that part of me. I really wanted to control it. And maybe the opportunity to visit a public sauna could be a means of control. If I happen to see some guy fully naked and then realize "nah I couldn't imagine touching that" I sort of get that proof that I might not be gay.
But as I said, I'm often curious about how attractive guys look like naked. I don't know if that's totally sexual, or just to compare myself with them or just interest in the male body.
So I'm analyzing what really gave me those weird feelings about having a sauna in a hospital. Just to check myself as I wrote above or to satisfy my curiosity? The latter would be creepy. Of course, I wouldn't stare or get myself turned on. And I wouldn't use those places just for that purpose (saunas are basically for relaxation and health and not for seeing people naked). I guess that's what a pathological voyeur would be like. If it really was curiosity, how normal would that be? Would any normal person visiting a sauna profit a little bit from seeing people of their preferred sex naked?
In my teenage years there were a few times when you could say that was voyeuristic (like I went to places on purpose to see other people naked, very rarely and not for a long time). Today I feel totally ashamed of that. But I guess and hope those were teenage years, when you do a lot of weird stuff.
 
Bizzarebitrary

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#8
Like I really wanted it to be normal for me to see other guys naked. When I went to the gym locker room, I wanted it to be nothing special. I thought if I had multiple opportunities to be around naked men I would get used to it and then I would be like somebody else who doesn't care about such things.
This sounds like you want to be desensitized to seeing naked people. I'm not sure that desensitized to nudity is more normal or what most people are like but it is certainly something you can work at. You would need exposure. Using myself as an example, at the clothing optional spa, I kept my clothes on for the first day, maybe two. After that, it felt way more awkward to keep the clothes on than to be nude around strangers. People definitely were checking each other out in a more or less tasteful way. There were some sexual advances. When I left the spa, my sensitivity to nudity returned to what it was before because people mostly wear clothing.

If what you are telling us is that you wish you could feel like what a straight man feels when he's in a men's locker room or sauna, desensitizing probably won't help.

The thing is, I've often been curious in seeing attractive guys naked. That may be part of my bisexuality. But on the other hand I always fought against that part of me. I really wanted to control it. And maybe the opportunity to visit a public sauna could be a means of control. If I happen to see some guy fully naked and then realize "nah I couldn't imagine touching that" I sort of get that proof that I might not be gay.
Could it be that this is what's causing distress? That you want to control, resist and reject a part of yourself that you haven't explored, that nonetheless wants to be expressed? I'm not trying to tell you where you are on the sexuality spectrum only that it is a spectrum, not bi or tri-polar. Gay/straight/bi is inadequate to describe what is fundamentally more complicated. Exploration of sexuality doesn't need to be limited to two gender achetypes.

But as I said, I'm often curious about how attractive guys look like naked. I don't know if that's totally sexual, or just to compare myself with them or just interest in the male body.
You don't mention if you've looked at still or moving images of attractive, nude men and been aroused so my inclination would be to do this and explore sexual feelings. If I had done this and wanted more exploration, I might look for a partner who accepts my curiosity or I might go to a club that had live nude dancers where it's certain that staring is appropriate behavior. I think you have some options beyond the steam room.

So I'm analyzing what really gave me those weird feelings about having a sauna in a hospital. Just to check myself as I wrote above or to satisfy my curiosity? The latter would be creepy. Of course, I wouldn't stare or get myself turned on. And I wouldn't use those places just for that purpose (saunas are basically for relaxation and health and not for seeing people naked). I guess that's what a pathological voyeur would be like.
Whoa, slow down there my friend. Words are very important because they become internalized and then feelings will be in conflict with labels. Leave a little safe place in your mind for voyeurism as a kink. A kink is most definitely not a pathology or a disorder and many people are turned on by watching - I know I am and I bet most people are (in their own ways) too. I also get turned on being watched. Admitting to it doesn't mean I actively violate the privacy of others or exploit every situation to indulge my fancy.

If it really was curiosity, how normal would that be? Would any normal person visiting a sauna profit a little bit from seeing people of their preferred sex naked?
I don't know what normal is or who normal people are. Do people get aroused by seeing naked people in a [wherever place]? Yes. Absolutely. Averting one's eyes is the common courtesy when passing another but the "stolen glance" is a common indulgence.
I also want to add that straight guys check out other straight guys for comparison and some are far more obvious about it than others.

In my teenage years there were a few times when you could say that was voyeuristic (like I went to places on purpose to see other people naked, very rarely and not for a long time). Today I feel totally ashamed of that. But I guess and hope those were teenage years, when you do a lot of weird stuff.
I hope you'll reconsider that feeling of shame because I don't think shaming oneself is particularly good for one's mental health (guilt is another matter).

Certain behaviors aren't acceptable - violating other people's privacy by taking pictures of them with your phone in the lockerroom. Drilling a hole in the wall to spy through, are some examples. It doesn't imply that the feeling of arousal derived from it is bad and there are ways to explore and express that feeling with others.

Voyeurs <-:cool:-> Exhibitionists

I hope this conversation has been helpful! (y)
 
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harsh-reality

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#9
You seem to wish to deny yourself to be a sexual being Sometimesweirdo - there are very few people on the planet that have zero interest in sex and sexuality.

There is nowt wrong with being aroused by others - its actually the most normal feeling going .

You're curious as to who you fancy and if you not really been in any kind of intimate relationship - its amazingly normal not abnormal at all.

Men tend to be more visual than women - so arousal could happen and again absolutely normal.

They do have a naturist session at our local health suite and I am led to believe there are often many single men turn up much more than couples and / or single women.

And everyone looks at other people - again nothing wrong in it at all.

From how you write to me it seems you lacking a good male friend who in same boat who you can chat to and go to venues where you can feel relaxed and just be yourself.

Then you will find lot young guys like you...

Hope things improve for you - and as said no need give yourself any kind telling off at all....

Its almost like you are being an overbearing critical parent to yourself when you ideally should allow yourself to be like most other men of your age etc...
 
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SometimesWeirdo

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#10
Thank you for your uplifting answers!

Yes, I've often looked at pictures of nude men online. And often I wanted to check myself I found nude men arousing in reality too.


I've mentioned a couple of times that I've always been kind of curious at how other guys of my age look like naked. And sometimes I kind of have weird thoughts. Like I ask myself "Does he have a penis?" (which is stupid because men naturally have penises :D). These thoughts kind of stress me out and I often think well if I got the chance to see them naked I'd have proof and then I would stop having to think about such things. So maybe seeing other men naked might stop that curiosity which has stressed me out a lot. Of course, this way of thinking is irrational. But I hope that accepting of who I really am like I'm doing more and more from day to day will help me get relaxed about such things.
I was really worried about my spontaneous feelings of that sauna thing. Why was I thinking and feeling that way because I only chose a hospital without a sauna? Maybe I have to accept that I, like probably everyone else, sometimes has weird thoughts and feelings from time to time that cannot be explained rationally and are not acceptable morally.
So all in all you say that I should not be worried? :)
 
Bizzarebitrary

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#11
Maybe I have to accept that I, like probably everyone else, sometimes has weird thoughts and feelings from time to time that cannot be explained rationally and are not acceptable morally.
:)
There are pieces in each of us that don't make sense. And there are parts of ourselves, feelings we hide because we are afraid other people will think they're disgusting or lame or shameful. It's hard to accept, they can be inconvenient.

So all in all you say that I should not be worried? :)
I will not say "don't be worried" my friend because when people say this to me I answer, "if I could stop worrying, dont you think I would do that?" :D I cope with anxiety, it comes and goes.

So instead I will tell you, continue doing what you're doing: trying to accept those inconvenient parts of yourself. Try to do this without putting judgements or labels on yourself like "pervert", which traps you in shame and guilt for thoughts and feelings you didn't ask to have.

And go look at some penises. Many of them! :clap:
 
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#12
The normality rammed into you (that boys do girls, and girls do boys) since you were a child is banging its head against your occasional inclination to find men attractive. Then, witnessing, within yourself, the ABILITY to find naked men attractive is colliding with your childhood programming that that, somehow, is wrong.

You can have homosexual feelings and do things with men for years, and it still need not mean that you are gay. That chaos being caused?...well, sometimes, yes, a therapist can help.

What you really need is to accept that all people, most ages, can feel sexual towards their own sex, out there in the world, and being gay is the last thing on the list of reasons!

I could go out into the world, right now, have sexual relations with another man, come on home and continue to type these words to you, and I was NOT GAY to begin with, was NOT GAY during, and am NOT GAY, now, either. This should be the beginning of your realisation of what is going on. Your idea of what you are is an extreme, and almost certainly doesn't apply to you at all. Straights can do gay things and remain straight for the rest of their lives.

The simply erotic, rather than gay, is what you're experiencing and you are giving it, and yourself, the wrong label. From heterosexual to homosexual, there is a very long spectrum of stages and you don't sound like you're more than a tiny fraction of the way to being gay just because the erotic sight of naked males...being gay would be a very long way down that gap between straight or gay.

Stop worrying, continue enjoying, live life and let yourself develop whatever sexuality seems to come along. Let it take years, and don't think in ABSOLUTE terms of what you are.
 
J

JasonCM

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#13
OP. Hello, hope you are doing OK.

I don't quite understand what you are struggling with. Do you have something against being gay or bi? It is part of who we are.. part of who you are. I think you are having such trouble with this issue because you might be fighting against your true self.

Maybe you could try to take a step back and relax a bit.
See what you find sexually attractive in you mind… women or men or both.

Go with how you are feeling at that time. There is nothing to say you have to be one of the other all your life. Peoples sexual likes and dislikes often change as they go through life and experience different things. You don't have to put yourself into one category or another.

At your age you should be having a good sex life and making the most of it while you have a young fit body lol. You don't want to get be an old man and regret wasted time when you were younger.

Find someone you like, male or female, and have some fun with them. You can meet people with similar tastes easily these days on all the phone apps etc. Just be safe and careful. You don't have to have full sex or anything either.. don't let anyone pressure you into something you are not wanting. Remember there are lots of people confused with their sexuality like you so you are far from alone... its a normal part of life.

I think after you have experimented a bit you will know better what you like and will be more confident with who you are.

There is nothing wrong with being gay, straight or bi or whatever. Just be a kind person is what matters. Also you only have this one life.. live it for yourself, not what ignorant people or other people want you to be.

Wish you all the best and hope you feel better soon.
 
S

SometimesWeirdo

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#14
Hey, thank you all for your nice replies!

I don't quite understand what you are struggling with. Do you have something against being gay or bi? It is part of who we are.. part of who you are. I think you are having such trouble with this issue because you might be fighting against your true self.
If you'd asked me half a year ago, I'd definitely have said that I struggle with my sexual orientation. Today I've gotten more relaxed about it.
In this post I was more worried (and still am a bit) about my thoughts or "wishes" about maybe seeing some nude men in a hospital. I feared that was kind of perverted, no matter if I am straight or gay, some sort of voyeurism. I think that's part of my anxiety because I may be scared of some "darker" desires I might have. But I don't really know if these desires are that dark because every man may have them. I often calm myself and think "it's nothing to blame myself and it's normal". I think it's all about self-acceptance, and I kind of need to work on it. But I think I've gotten better at it.