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    Thread: Child Behaviour: Not In Their Genes?

    1. #1
      Senior Member firemonkee's Avatar
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      Default Child Behaviour: Not In Their Genes?

      Yet inside there is this perpetual nagging doubt;
      the feeling we are possessed by a 'subtle lack of togetherness''.

      If we really want to say what helps in mental health, there’s a straightforward mantra and it goes like this:

      “Some people find medication helpful. Some people find therapy helpful. Some people find medication and therapy helpful. Some people don’t find either helpful.”


      My newspaper


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      Senior Member cpuusage's Avatar
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      Beyond cultural Myth/Assumptions - where was the evidence in the first place that it was?
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      "You become mature when you become the authority of your own life.” ~ Joseph Campbell
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    3. #3
      Senior Member |||ME|||'s Avatar
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      Using a powerful approach called GCTA, King’s College London researchers Maciej Trzaskowski and colleagues found no evidence that genetics can explain differences in children’s behavioural and conduct difficulties.
      They "found no genetic influence on the behaviour [and conduct] measures".

      These ‘behaviour problems’ included "symptoms of autism, hyperactivity, psychopathy, conduct disorder and more."

      Genetics has "failed to find common genetic variants that are associated with ‘complex traits’ like personality, [and] mental disorder".

      How we got to a position where this is breaking news astounds me.

      It's just yet another failed attempt to reduce us to our genes, an endeavour which will necessarily fail in these areas.
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      Hmmm, I believe my dad had BPD. He had personality disorder on his notes but it didn't specify. The was he had a really awful childhood. He committed suicide about four years ago now.

      I think a lot of my behaviour is learnt and also that my parents were crap and couldn't look after themselves really, let alone a child. My behaviour as a child was bad.

      I have BPD if it was related to genes would that mean my brain has a defect? I had an MRI scan once ( not for mental health reasons), it was all normal but I guess it would take a more in-depth scan to show anything so detailed.

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      Senior Member cpuusage's Avatar
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      i'd think that where all the actual research/knowledge actually is, is that we really know incredibly little, & in the case of epigenetics/brain plasticity; it is well established that physiology, cannot be readily separated from environment/life experience/psychology - especially in relation to mental health.

      The truth of all that though doesn't well suit the agendas of Corporate Controlled mass media/Government & the Pharmaceutical/Biomedical Psychiatric Industry.
      “To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.” ~ Chang Tzu
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      Senior Member |||ME|||'s Avatar
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      ... this paragraph by the author (following on from where he reports they can't find the genes for behavioural problems) is brilliant:

      This is surprising because these traits are largely heritable – meaning that they run in families, and that identical twins (with all their DNA in common) tend to be more similar than non-identical ones (with only half). But if they’re heritable then, by definition, there must be genes behind that
      ffs

      What about how looking EXACTLY the same as someone else and being raised in a society/by parents that accept the myth's about how important DNA is to who you are leads to them being treated the same, or even as 'one person', to a much higher degree for identical twins than for non identical twins.

      (Hopefully they control for the fact that non identical twins are sometimes different genders, otherwise that would be just too embarrassing).

      Nope, the higher similarity of behaviour "must" all be genes. Couldn't be anything to do with experience of life at all. Apart from genes there's nothing that explains the higher similarity of identical twins to non identical twins

      _______________________________________________


      Lets apply the 'something runs in families and is therefore genetic' logic to the behaviour of the 'language spoken by an individual': The language one speaks with generally runs in families. Therefore language is heritable. Therefore there must be genes behind it. Therefore I inherited the genes for "speaking English" from my parents. Unfortunately science can't find them, but trust me I'm a scientist - they're there!
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      Senior Member cpuusage's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by |||ME||| View Post
      Lets apply the 'something runs in families and is therefore genetic' logic to the behaviour of the 'language spoken by an individual': The language one speaks with generally runs in families. Therefore language is heritable. Therefore there must be genes behind it. Therefore I inherited the genes for "speaking English" from my parents. Unfortunately science can't find them, but trust me I'm a scientist - they're there!
      Do you think in a few years that i'd be able to have some gene therapy for French; so i could speak it - that would be cool.
      “To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.” ~ Chang Tzu
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      Quote Originally Posted by cpuusage View Post
      Do you think in a few years that i'd be able to have some gene therapy for French; so i could speak it - that would be cool.
      I'm sure researchers will tell you identifying the genes required to do this is just a small breakthrough away for about the next 100 years if there's any money in it for them.
      Please Sign this Petition for Transparency of Clinical Trials
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      I'm a mother of twins and I can verify that behaviour is learned rather than acquired genetically. I've lost count of the ignorant people who assume that similar behaviours/likes/dislikes between my two sons are down to genetics. Certain things may evolve into similar behaviours but very frequently older twins polarise into different patterns of behaviour/life choices in order to be seen as individuals.

      But I agree with ME - living in the same family, and perhaps being treated in the same way....twins are often treated as a unit....is going to lead to similar outcomes.

      I know this isn't popular to state....but my sister had tics and so did my two sons. The tics weren't down to upbringing, but whether the dyslexia, inattentiveness, anxiety, OCD and autistic traits were down to genetics or not is something that I have wondered very often. There have been definite patterns of learning difficulty and anxious/obsessive behavioural traits within the family.

      The anxiety / OCD could perhaps have come from environmental factors such as being told off for not listening / attending, parental frustration with wild behaviour and lowered self esteem and worry as a result. So I get that one.

      Tics can be induced by environmental factors - such as stress, tiredness - but the tics normally persist long after the stress / tiredness has passed and last two weeks or more at a time with a definite pattern to them - starting with less frequency/intensity and then peaking before diminishing slowly. That's not an environmental problem.

      I think it is possible to have a vulnerability to certain conditions. I had no signs of ADD or tics as a child, but following antidepressant use I have become susceptible to the anxiety and obsessive traits that plagued my father who possibly also had the condition.

      I'd be interested if any one can explain why I may be wrong about this.

    10. #10
      Senior Member cpuusage's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MissKitty View Post
      I'd be interested if any one can explain why I may be wrong about this.
      Some of the theories on epigenetics would explain it.

      i think it helps for people to get rid of the idea that 'we' know a lot about genetics/the brain/life/& reality, 'we' don't! We know fuck all.

      My personal view - everything is interdependent & interconnected. Genes are primarily transmitters/receivers of information. i would say that there is a 'basic' code - an imprint/establishment at conception - & some conditions/traits, may be wholly, or in part connected with that initial imprint - but within the context of everything else. But, i'd also say that it isn't a case of being either/or - it's known that environment, life experience etc directly effects gene expression/development.

      Some conditions/traits may be easier to define as being wholly an expression of the original genetic creation at conception, but the majority of stuff, i wouldn't think it is so clear cut.

      It's this idea that it's 'all your genes' that is so utterly potty - & it verges into some very dangerous implications.

      I'd reiterate what i said above - it is long & well established that physiology, cannot be readily separated from environment/life experience/psychology - especially in relation to mental health.

      Some more forward thinking psychiatrists are starting to acknowledge more the diversity, & scope of a range of factors implicated within peoples conditions/distress.
      “To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.” ~ Chang Tzu
      "You become mature when you become the authority of your own life.” ~ Joseph Campbell
      http://healingsanctuary.proboards.com/index.cgi
      http://www.mentalhealthforum.net/forum/thread54371.html
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