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    Thread: Are people with Bipolar best suited to living in institutions..

    1. #31
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      Sorry I feel a bit lost. The actual topic seems to have got a bit off topic or maybe its just me atm,
      Will try make sense of things.
      Theres always a certain number of risks or people being harmed, raped, murdered,etc.
      These perpetrators may or may not have a mental health illness or have ever been diagnosed with one.
      When a mentally unwell person does something really wrong then yep, its in the news a psych patient has done ....whatever......
      There are people who are a risk to themselves their families and the public.
      Many people (who would be mentally well) also a perpetrators of crimes.
      Some certain people are and/or will always be in a secure unit like psych forensic units, under certain mental health act orders for life, living in the community but within a supervised manner.
      I when I have been in the psychiatric ward when really crook was a risk to myself (and possibly others.
      Because of my particular traits and the way bipolar has affected me, I have and mostly can follow my personal crisis plan.
      Ringing the crisis team is always an option.
      Risk is often difficult to measure.
      Risk is difficult to measure with anybody from all walks of life.
      Also I am very lucky that my meds are keeping me fairly well and stable (well mostly)

      And thinking again bout stigma thats part of the issue. People can as soon as they know you may have a mental illness back right off.
      Sadly I can imagine that this kind of stigma and the general communities attitude also leads to lessupport,

    2. #32
      manic miner
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      Quote Originally Posted by historymum View Post

      I'll stop now - I'm awlays boring people with History,.....
      Im sure thats not true.

      Thanks for explaining the historymum name I had always thought that it had something to do with you abandoning your kids so thats good. You could probably have called yourself "mum" but maybe a little bit of ego crept in and the rest is history.

      I thought that after 3 goes we would of got further with this but at least we seem to agree that old lunatic asylums were a bad thing.

    3. #33
      Apotheosis
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      Quote Originally Posted by manic miner View Post
      I thought that after 3 goes we would of got further with this but at least we seem to agree that old lunatic asylums were a bad thing.
      The history of asylums is long & complex - & there have been many; not all with the same approach.

      In idea - a safe place for people to convalesce & have a place of genuine safety, calm, & holistic healing away from the pressures of society - then great; I feel that it's a wonderful idea & is what is needed. At many times in the past; if I'd been offered such a place I would have gladly gone; & I used to Dream of such a place. There was a time when I could have done with being a permanent resident in an psychiatric hospital - But I'm now glad that didn't happen.

      But of course - if we're very unwell & in a lot of confusion & distress; how lovely & wonderful to be able to go to a caring place of genuine asylum & be nurtured, cared for & looked after. & I'd love it; as I'm sure that many would (& in many ways your right that as a society we're treating Donkeys better than people). The stark reality however, whatever the supposed intentions; is that such places were often very far from such an ideal.

      The only thing that I'm aware of that has fitted such a bill (although there may have been others) is the Quaker places of care. One that I am aware of is still running -

      The Retreat - http://www.theretreatyork.org.uk/

      Depending on your circumstances & if this is what you want; then you could maybe try & get a referral?

      Other approaches that have been in line with what I think your assuming are listed here (if you want to do some research).

      (I would however not recommend the UK Philadelphia Association, nor the Arbours)

      ""Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary - folks don't have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing's Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry's Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-'Weller than well'- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it's own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult."

      Does that help at all?
      Last edited by Apotheosis; 31-01-12 at 11:29.

    4. #34
      historymum
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      Apotheosis - absolutely. I was just referring to what most people tend to think of when they hear the word 'asylum' in connection with mental illness.

      Quote Originally Posted by manic miner View Post

      Thanks for explaining the historymum name I had always thought that it had something to do with you abandoning your kids so thats good. You could probably have called yourself "mum" but maybe a little bit of ego creptin and the rest is history.
      Whoah! Why does having a love of History have to mean having an ego problem? My moniker comes from the fact that it describes "me" very nicely. I love both my job and my family.

      Now, I'll bow out of this thread as it seems to be going no where.

    5. #35
      Active Member cookielover's Avatar
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      My original post on this subject was very cheeky. I didn't take it too seriously. Who could really ask such a question?

      I have been admitted to the psych ward and I lost my dignity all in the name of 'keeping me safe'. I lost the right to wear my own clothes, choose my own meals, go to bed when I want, see my family when I need to, and I've had to take medication that made me feel dead inside. I have had 5 stays in the hospital for various reasons. Did it help me? For a few days, maybe, but then it was just hard. I cried to get out.

      During my stays there I saw awful things. I saw a woman run away in her hospital issued jammies, I saw another woman kick and scream as the police came to take her to a long-term institution. She had to be sedated in order for them to transport her. I think of her every time I drive by Riverview Hospital. I wonder if she is still there.

      She was a nice person. She didn't have anywhere else to go. I think the system failed her, and that is going to happen from time-to-time. Now compare me to her. I have a very safe place to go, and a family who adores me, and a ton of support to make sure I take my medications and stay safe. Throwing me in an institution would be the death of me.

      Now...my question to you manic miner...

      Is why do you want to feed the ducks? Why would you choose such a subject? Have you ever been put in a hospital setting? And most importantly why haven't you answered the question? Keep the breadcrumbs to yourself unless you are bringing a positive question to the table. I hope people keep answering this question, only to take a stand and tell you that we are strong and being bipolar can't break us.
      Amy
      Bipolar is Not Going to Break Me! Come and follow my blog: http://amyinbc.blogspot.com I Can't Believe They Let Me Write One Either!!

    6. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by historymum View Post
      Apotheosis - absolutely. I was just referring to what most people tend to think of when they hear the word 'asylum' in connection with mental illness.



      Whoah! Why does having a love of History have to mean having an ego problem? My moniker comes from the fact that it describes "me" very nicely. I love both my job and my family.

      Now, I'll bow out of this thread as it seems to be going no where.
      Apotheosis knows that the word "asylum" was used in an historical context and you status within the group remains unchanged.

      I honestly didnt think that you had an ego problem at the time of my post it was a comedic device. My sense of humor is a WIP
      we have that in commom at least.

      And for your information this is the third time the thread has gone nowhere.

    7. #37
      Apotheosis
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      Quote Originally Posted by manic miner View Post
      And for your information this is the third time the thread has gone nowhere.
      I wouldn't say that it's gone nowhere. What do you want people to talk about & discuss? Could you discuss your ideas & thoughts on it all please? Expand on things a bit.

      I think that I understand what your saying. But our personal 'visions' of how things could, should, or would like them to be, is very different to the realities of how things have been, are & might be.

    8. #38
      manic miner
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      Quote Originally Posted by cookielover View Post
      My original post on this subject was very cheeky. I didn't take it too seriously. Who could really ask such a question?

      I have been admitted to the psych ward and I lost my dignity all in the name of 'keeping me safe'. I lost the right to wear my own clothes, choose my own meals, go to bed when I want, see my family when I need to, and I've had to take medication that made me feel dead inside. I have had 5 stays in the hospital for various reasons. Did it help me? For a few days, maybe, but then it was just hard. I cried to get out.

      During my stays there I saw awful things. I saw a woman run away in her hospital issued jammies, I saw another woman kick and scream as the police came to take her to a long-term institution. She had to be sedated in order for them to transport her. I think of her every time I drive by Riverview Hospital. I wonder if she is still there.

      She was a nice person. She didn't have anywhere else to go. I think the system failed her, and that is going to happen from time-to-time. Now compare me to her. I have a very safe place to go, and a family who adores me, and a ton of support to make sure I take my medications and stay safe. Throwing me in an institution would be the death of me.

      Now...my question to you manic miner...

      Is why do you want to feed the ducks? Why would you choose such a subject? Have you ever been put in a hospital setting? And most importantly why haven't you answered the question? Keep the breadcrumbs to yourself unless you are bringing a positive question to the table. I hope people keep answering this question, only to take a stand and tell you that we are strong and being bipolar can't break us.
      I thought Chilliwack was a band?
      Dont worry about looking foolish on a MH forum I do it all the time and when there are 3 threads the same there is plenty of time for a sensible post. I will sart no 4 if you wish.
      The questions.
      Matthew 6:26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they.
      Ifeed the ducks when I doi because if I dont they will die. But thats it, I dont have any regard for thei wefare after that I dont run a duck welfare programme. I start threads beccause I know what will make peolle conrtibute-I dont have all the answers.Moderators would like to control the threads but thay would soon run dry. Give me a better metaphor.
      Yes I have been in a hospital setting.
      I would would not wish to be in a hospital/asylum at this time. I think there is still some confusion what we are talking about here. Some of these places had all the facilities you could wish for and it was all entrusted to psychiatry. Most of the abuses that we associate with them are down to psychiatic abuses.
      Perhaps its psychiatry thats the problem not the concept of assylum.

    9. #39
      Apotheosis
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      Quote Originally Posted by manic miner View Post
      Some of these places had all the facilities you could wish for and it was all entrusted to psychiatry. Most of the abuses that we associate with them are down to psychiatic abuses.
      Perhaps its psychiatry thats the problem not the concept of assylum.
      I agree.

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    10. #40
      Senior Member mckeo5514's Avatar
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      i think a caravan park at a seaside may be a better idea than an institution, somewhere to go for a few weeks to get away from worries, and relax. they run prisons like butlins, so why not run something similar to butlins. well thats my thought anyway
      Thanks N/A gave thanks for this post

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