Class a drugs

[Dollit]

Chasm - at no point have I quoted the FRANK campaign as being enlightened. I was speaking purely at a local level where we are considered to be trail blazers and a lot of the ideas that are born in Bristol go on to become lauded nationally on all subjects. A lot of these don't get wider media coverage because they spread naturally through their fields. Just because something isn't it your face doesn't mean to say it isn't happening.

Your figure of 3% is admittedly apalling but you have to acknowledge the fact that a lot of the people who go through treatment centres are there because it's a condition of the legal system or relatives have insisted they go. And addict of any kind will only stop when they are ready to stop and, for 70% of alcoholics alone, stopping happens only on death. That means of those who willingly go into treatment or AA or who stop on their own only 30% are likely to gain any meaningful sobriety or any long time abstinence. We can't blame the treatment centres for the lack of success.

[Apotheosis]

Apo = temper tantrums don't look good on two year olds and they certainly don't look good on allegedly mature people.

LOL - So as well as a theorist who doesn't live in the real World I'm now behaving like a two year old. Yea OK.

I'm calm & relaxed - I posted my valid opinion & feelings in the last post. Rationally, logically & reasonably.

I haven't insinuated that you don't live in the real world - you are reading far too much into a comment that was actually a generalization. Perhaps that says far more about how you view your comments?

Perhaps it does - but that wouldn't make me the only one to do so on this thread; or on the forum, would it? People have been generally posting far more from strong emotional responses than they have with rational discussion & acknowledging what has been said.

As for fighting for limitations - there are limitations to your ideas and sitting discussing matters in an NA meeting or acting as a sponsor (and I'm speaking from very personal experience here) doesn't really change anything, it just helps a small group of people who have stopped or who are trying to stop.

The work I do is very much not confined to NA; nor solely a "12 Step paradigm". I do very few meetings nowadays. To say that millions in long term addiction recovery through "12 step" fellowships - "doesn't really change anything" is neither accurate or true.

This thread hasn't become "Noddy" it's just not agreeing with everything you say nor has it become ad hominem Apo, that implies again that comments that have been made in a general manner have been taken far too personally.

I am at a total loss to understand you Apotheosis. I feel you think too much and don't get on with the practicalities of life. There have been 'theorists' through all the centuries but we need people to put their energy and knowledge into application otherwise there is a standstill.

I have been specifically referring to "ad hominem" responses. I don't think this discussion is being discussed in a rational adult way by some of the people posting in it. IMO this thread is utterly noddy.